Brokers and commissions

[krisbee]

1 minute ago, rasar said:

Looks like Tradier just barfed. Website and API services are non-functional.

I use Tradehawk with Tradier, works fine for me.

[CJ912]

Same here with ONE, all works fine

[rasar]

That's weird. I can get to SO, but not to Tradier and some others.

[Ringandpinion]

Tradier website let me log in, I don't trade on it but everything seemed to be working.

[andrewma]

8 minutes ago, rasar said:

That's weird. I can get to SO, but not to Tradier and some others.

Clear cookies, re start browser, try another browser

[rasar]

9 minutes ago, rasar said:

That's weird. I can get to SO, but not to Tradier and some others.

It seems to have fixed itself. Must have had some funky network issues. I'm out of the country, so who knows. Thanks for all the quick checks.

[rasar]

2 minutes ago, andrewma said:

Clear cookies, re start browser, try another browser

I did, earlier, but it didn't help. The problem was also in ONE (linked to Tradier). Either way, it's Ok now.Thanks.

[Gen88]

Has anyone heard of Surgetrader? Want to get some views on it.

thanks.

[Peeyotch]

4 minutes ago, Gen88 said:

Has anyone heard of Surgetrader? Want to get some views on it.

thanks.

Yes I have, I’ve done some research on them before. They’re a trader evaluation firm, not a broker. Their broker is an outfit called EightCap out of somewhere in the Caribbean. They (SurgeTrader) supposedly figured out how to structure things so that a US citizen can trade CFDs (which is normally illegal for retail) through them. 
 

I have no info on whether they’re any good or not, I haven’t used them. However, you do need to understand that EightCap trades all over-the-counter products, nothing is on an exchange. If you ever read Reminiscences of a Stock Operator, CFD brokers are the modern day equivalent of the old bucket shops. That’s not necessarily a bad thing as long as the brokerage is on the up and up. CFDs allow for very precise position sizing, much like Forex. Also, CFDs typically cover a large variety of products: indices, single stocks, metals, energies, crypto, currencies, etc. 

 

All that needs to be weighed against the fact that you’re trading a broker-created instrument that (ostensibly) tracks the underlying asset, not the asset itself. 

[Gen88]

Thanks! This is very useful information. Going to be a pass for me trying them out.

[siddharth]

Is paying 55c per contract with no ticket fee considered expensive ? 

[Peeyotch]

On 8/14/2023 at 9:39 AM, siddharth said:

Is paying 55c per contract with no ticket fee considered expensive ? 

The standard around the industry right now looks to be 65c with no ticket fee, so it's better than that. However, you can do much better with someone like Tradier or Firstrade if your trading fits into their parameters. For example, Tradier is a flat $10 a month for no options commissions at all (except index options), but you will pay $10 for each option that expires or is exercised. That can be very painful if you're not aware of it. Firstrade on the other hand has no commissions on any options at all, not even index options, but they do not allow time spreads (calendars and diagonals) on index options.

You absolutely have to read the fine print of the fee schedules and understand your own trading to find out what your real costs would be.

[myang]

Now, it seems the transaction cost of TD and IB are almost the same (0.65). With very limited (2) datapoints, I find TD is a bit faster (~ 4min) to fill the order with same debit. Wonder if anyone else has the same/different experience?

[Erich]

On 7/27/2022 at 7:20 AM, Ringandpinion said:

@Sunshine25 I use TOS.  I put up with the .65 fee for a while and after I showed a little volume they took me down to .45 on my main account but left the .65 on my IRA's.  I called and whined the next year and they gave me .40 on all three accounts.  That's where I am now.  I know at least one person that has gotten them down to .25.  That's my target after this year, I may not get .25 but I think I can get it down a little further.  We'll see.  Several SO members have mentioned Tradier (I think) that has a flat fee per month, I'm just so accustomed to TOS that I don't want to change.

Did TOS ever drop your fees lower? I'm in the same boat - I prefer to use their platform and don't really want to switch.

[Ringandpinion]

15 minutes ago, Erich said:

Did TOS ever drop your fees lower? I'm in the same boat - I prefer to use their platform and don't really want to switch.

I eventually got them down to .35 per contract.  I think my trading volume is unlikely to ever get anything better.  I have an account with Tradier for certain trades with lots of legs but Tradier doesn't offer portfolio margin, so I keep most of my trading at TOS.

[Sashi]

What broker is recommended for the most flexibility when placing complex option trades? I have used Etrade, TOS, Webull, and others. I have not used IB USA. Commissions are important but I have found serious difficulty when trying to alter trades. For example I might not be able to submit a double diagonal and would have to place two diagonals which carries extra risk. Legging out might not be possible if it leaves the short position or opening a short position to hedge a long position that is already open. I have the margin in my accounts for the trades I'm trying to do but it feels like that platforms want to keep things simple. For example shorting a vertical is fine but if I want to adjust it then I would have to close the trade and open a new one with the different spread. I am curious what you all have found. 

[R.Kinman]

34 minutes ago, Sashi said:

What broker is recommended for the most flexibility when placing complex option trades? I have used Etrade, TOS, Webull, and others. I have not used IB USA. Commissions are important but I have found serious difficulty when trying to alter trades. For example I might not be able to submit a double diagonal and would have to place two diagonals which carries extra risk. Legging out might not be possible if it leaves the short position or opening a short position to hedge a long position that is already open. I have the margin in my accounts for the trades I'm trying to do but it feels like that platforms want to keep things simple. For example shorting a vertical is fine but if I want to adjust it then I would have to close the trade and open a new one with the different spread. I am curious what you all have found. 

I think it depends on what you trade when it comes to complex orders. For example, the CBOE does not allow complex orders for futures. So, if a broker can handle them, they are likely relying on some kind of internal AI to make it happen with fills on the CBOE side. However, stocks and indexes like the SPX do accept complex orders. Tasty is adding a internal order handling to bring complex orders for futures. 

 

I've been using Tastytrade for some time and I really like the platform. I recently upgraded to their portfolio margin account and it's been really nice too. They offer a 20% down and 15% up risk on the SPX for portfolio margin. It's also pretty easy to get SPX discounts with Tastytrade.

[Windeon]

Tradier just put this message on their page. What does it mean?

 

T+2 to T+1

Effective Tuesday, May 28th, 2024, the SEC (Securities Exchange Commission) and FINRA (Financial Industry Regulatory Authority) have changed the settlement period for stock and ETF (Exchange-Traded Fund) trades from T+2 to T+1. For stock and ETF trades executed on Friday or Tuesday, settlement will occur on Wednesday.

 

[Windeon]

7 hours ago, Windeon said:

Tradier just put this message on their page. What does it mean?

 

T+2 to T+1

Effective Tuesday, May 28th, 2024, the SEC (Securities Exchange Commission) and FINRA (Financial Industry Regulatory Authority) have changed the settlement period for stock and ETF (Exchange-Traded Fund) trades from T+2 to T+1. For stock and ETF trades executed on Friday or Tuesday, settlement will occur on Wednesday.

 

I guess they mean

We sure will hurt you today

[falkor]

On 5/28/2024 at 7:01 PM, Windeon said:

Tradier just put this message on their page. What does it mean?

 

T+2 to T+1

Effective Tuesday, May 28th, 2024, the SEC (Securities Exchange Commission) and FINRA (Financial Industry Regulatory Authority) have changed the settlement period for stock and ETF (Exchange-Traded Fund) trades from T+2 to T+1. For stock and ETF trades executed on Friday or Tuesday, settlement will occur on Wednesday.

 

This table shows the dramatic improvement in trade settlement times now in effect. Brokers now need to work much faster to settle trades!

[ex3y7s]

What market data subscriptions are folks using to trade options on IB? I see both combo bundles and a la carte offerings, and it's not immediately clear to me exactly which I need. I would only be trading options; all my stock and futures trades are with different brokers.

[falkor]

10 hours ago, ex3y7s said:

What market data subscriptions are folks using to trade options on IB? I see both combo bundles and a la carte offerings, and it's not immediately clear to me exactly which I need. I would only be trading options; all my stock and futures trades are with different brokers.

For options alone on IB, "OPRA NP L1" is sufficient ($1.50 / month, rebated with sufficient trading volume). But would you not also want to see pricing of the underlying on the same screen?

[MichaelJ8]

44 minutes ago, falkor said:

For options alone on IB, "OPRA NP L1" is sufficient ($1.50 / month, rebated with sufficient trading volume). But would you not also want to see pricing of the underlying on the same screen?

I was with IB, and they completely screwed me over. I had a one minute time ticker algo that was killing it. Then all of a sudden I went on a HUGE losing streak. Couldn't figure it out. I guess my fault for not thinking of it, but it never occurred to me that the data provider would actually start providing incorrect data THAT terrible. It went from providing 1 minute data to sometimes one minute ticker data, sometimes some random time interval, sometimes of 40% of the data in a 10 minute period. Now given I was using the API maybe that was just a problem with their API.... but I can never ever go back to IB nor can I recommend them for this reason alone. Maybe this is irrelevant if you don't use API access.

[falkor]

20 hours ago, MichaelJ8 said:

I was with IB, and they completely screwed me over. I had a one minute time ticker algo that was killing it. Then all of a sudden I went on a HUGE losing streak. Couldn't figure it out. I guess my fault for not thinking of it, but it never occurred to me that the data provider would actually start providing incorrect data THAT terrible. It went from providing 1 minute data to sometimes one minute ticker data, sometimes some random time interval, sometimes of 40% of the data in a 10 minute period. Now given I was using the API maybe that was just a problem with their API.... but I can never ever go back to IB nor can I recommend them for this reason alone. Maybe this is irrelevant if you don't use API access.

Yes that's true! I have had many issues with IB API, especially for options. Sometimes market data fields just refuse to return values, and will only work after significant delay and multiple retries. I also find their delta values very unstable.

 

 

In fairness, I have also experienced catastrophic market data returned by Bloomberg Desktop API (blpapi / bbcomm), which has also caused our trading desk much angst.

 

Regardless of your market data provider, the key, as always, is having a robust risk management framework. Easier said than done, of course, and our risk team has perhaps the best job security

Edited June 15, 2024 by falkor

[ex3y7s]

On 6/14/2024 at 9:49 AM, falkor said:

For options alone on IB, "OPRA NP L1" is sufficient ($1.50 / month, rebated with sufficient trading volume). But would you not also want to see pricing of the underlying on the same screen?

Thanks! It’s not a hard requirement as I have other data sources I can use; I was mostly wondering if folks are using a la carte subscriptions or the bundles. It wasn’t clear to me if the OPRA L1 covered all options exchanges or not.

[falkor]

@Kim

Quote

 And yes, please NEVER use market orders. Market makers will eat you alive.

Unless IB steps in to save the day!

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/interactive-brokers-trading-notice-123600386.html

"That evening, the Company determined to take over a substantial portion of these trades as a customer accommodation. "

 

Now we know where our IB commissions are going...

Edited June 27, 2024 by falkor

[rasar]

4 minutes ago, falkor said:

@Kim

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/interactive-brokers-trading-notice-123600386.html

That article is worth reading in its entirety. The last couple of paragraphs are interesting:

"....As a result, the Company has realized losses (including losses on certain hedge transactions) in the amount of approximately $48 million.

...The Company does not believe that these losses will have a material effect on its financial condition."

[ex3y7s]

Does anyone have experience with IB’s mobile app on iOS? I can’t figure out if there’s a quick way to add existing option positions to an order ticket (eg to roll) without having to view the full chain. It’s IB so I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s just not possible but figured I’d ask.

[falkor]

Be aware multiple brokers facing issues today.

 

[myang]

It seems TOS is down and Tradier is working properly. However, TOS charges much more for options trade than Tradier

[ex3y7s]

1 minute ago, myang said:

It seems TOS is down and Tradier is working properly. However, TOS charges much more for options trade than Tradier

I've been noticing issues with Tradier all morning. Orders getting rejected, stuck in "Pending" states, etc.. I did get a few orders filled so it's doing a little better than TOS.

[rasar]

2 minutes ago, myang said:

It seems TOS is down and Tradier is working properly. However, TOS charges much more for options trade than Tradier

I've been up on ToS since before the market opened. I can add and replace trades, although none have filled yet. Prices are updating regularly.

[Chuck451]

1 minute ago, rasar said:

I've been up on ToS since before the market opened. I can add and replace trades, although none have filled yet. Prices are updating regularly.

I've been closing trades just fine this morning on TOS... seems ok for me.  

[myang]

1 minute ago, rasar said:

I've been up on ToS since before the market opened. I can add and replace trades, although none have filled yet. Prices are updating regularly.

I was OK on the web TOS for a while, then was kicked out. I cannot even reach their customer service by phone. Even the usual welcome AI does not take the call

[krisbee]

3 minutes ago, ex3y7s said:

I've been noticing issues with Tradier all morning. Orders getting rejected, stuck in "Pending" states, etc.. I did get a few orders filled so it's doing a little better than TOS.

I had first 3 mins issues with Tradehawk/Tradier. After that things are fine. I was trying to replace the GTC limit value. I'm not sure if it was able to handle new orders without issue.

[rasar]

Just now, Chuck451 said:

I've been closing trades just fine this morning on TOS... seems ok for me.  

Yup. I hadn't meant to imply that my unfilled trades were a problem, just a point of information.

[Ringandpinion]

11 minutes ago, rasar said:

I've been up on ToS since before the market opened. I can add and replace trades, although none have filled yet. Prices are updating regularly.

I've been up on TOS since an hour before open.  Then again, once I saw my portfolio balance, I almost wished it didn't come up.☹️

[myang]

5 minutes ago, Ringandpinion said:

I've been up on TOS since an hour before open.  Then again, once I saw my portfolio balance, I almost wished it didn't come up.☹️

Sorry to know that, but honestly, you may consider hedge when the sky is clear ...

[georgefx]

Interesting choices of brokers for commissions, will have to look into most of these as mine was a bit higher! Good to know.

[thomastld]

Hi, I've been trading with IB for a few years and wanted to know if you guys have some recommendation for lower commission broker ? Thx

[TrustyJules]

Tradier is the lowest though you absolutely need Tradehawk with it - Tasty Works is less expensive than IB and has a good interface. Both work for European citizens.

[yutyu2014]

How can I monitor my trades in Tradier? Unlike IB, Tradier only displays the P/L of individual legs, not the entire combo.

Also, I don't subscribe to any data in Tradier, so I am guessing that even for the individual legs the quotes may be delayed.

(I do have a data subscription in IB, so sometimes I use the quotes there to assist my trades in Tradier, but that is inefficient.)

Just wonder what other members do.

Thanks.

[rasar]

12 hours ago, yutyu2014 said:

How can I monitor my trades in Tradier? Unlike IB, Tradier only displays the P/L of individual legs, not the entire combo.

Also, I don't subscribe to any data in Tradier, so I am guessing that even for the individual legs the quotes may be delayed.

(I do have a data subscription in IB, so sometimes I use the quotes there to assist my trades in Tradier, but that is inefficient.)

Just wonder what other members do.

Thanks.

Have you tried using Tradier's TradeHawk app ?

[yutyu2014]

15 hours ago, rasar said:

Have you tried using Tradier's TradeHawk app ?

I use Tradier's trading platform on both my phone and my desktop. I am not sure if that is already the TradeHawk app you are talking about.

The platform cannot display the P/L of combos, only the individual legs. (I called Tradier once about that, and they said no, they can't do it yet.) 

[rasar]

19 minutes ago, yutyu2014 said:

I use Tradier's trading platform on both my phone and my desktop. I am not sure if that is already the TradeHawk app you are talking about

TradeHawk is different from the Tradier trading "platform". They now call it Tradier Pro. It's much more like Thinkorswim, and allows you to create your own "strategies" and groups. It's got a slight learning curve, but that's to be expected.

[yutyu2014]

22 hours ago, rasar said:

TradeHawk is different from the Tradier trading "platform". They now call it Tradier Pro. It's much more like Thinkorswim, and allows you to create your own "strategies" and groups. It's got a slight learning curve, but that's to be expected.

Thanks. Seems like I have been using Tradier Pro on my desktop. After clicking around, I can now see the profit/loss (P/L) of each combo. The problem is that I cannot trust the numbers I am seeing there, especially after the market is closed. For instance, Tradier Pro is now showing that our IBM double diagonal has a 30% gain, which is clearly not the case.