Brokers and commissions

[4REAL]

Same here, have not been able to login since 7:30am (EST), quite lamentable

 

[Paul]

Finally all accounts up and running.  Good thing for DTC orders.

[dsigma]

Still trying...not from desktop or mobile phone...

[Ringandpinion]

I just wanted to mention something I recently observed about TOS and IB.  A daily chart on TOS when set to show extended hours trading session does not do so.  I even asked them, it doesn't even incorporate the after hours move into the chart so you would not see any after hours moves that were outside of the moves for the regular hours.  Since I have my IB account open now, I checked that and their charts incorporate the outside regular hours move into the chart.  To compare an example look at SURF, I've been in and out of this stock over the last couple of months and a couple of trades were made outside of regular hours when my GTC triggered.  But according to TOS, which is where the trades were made, that stock never reached those levels.  The differences are sufficient to mislead you in trading.

[rasar]

12 minutes ago, Ringandpinion said:

...A daily chart on TOS when set to show extended hours trading session does not do so.  I even asked them, it doesn't even incorporate the after hours move into the chart so you would not see any after hours moves that were outside of the moves for the regular hours....

Can you clarify ? Are you referring to the normal daily price chart like the one below ?

[Ringandpinion]

Sorry, I'm talking about a chart with daily candles but a 3, 6 or 12 month (or any) long term axis.  It won't show the highlighted after hours areas for good reason, there wouldn't be room but it does not incorporate those after hours price swings into the daily candle (or bar).  I only found out accidentally and then chatted them and the verdict was no, the after hours moves are not incorporated into the daily candle.  I was surprised.  I checked IB this morning just out of curiosity and the swings that I knew were there showed.  Not a real big deal but I don't like getting compromised data because of their programming.  I may submit a gripe at some point but with as many users as TOS has, I really doubt it will be the first one, so I'm not expecting any action on it.

[rasar]

Got it. Thanks for clarifying.

[Harshtingo]

Can someone suggest a good broker for my trading account I am looking to start trading intially with $5000 and then gradually increase it every year 

Suggest broker where I can get discounted rates

[ashk33]

Has anybody tried Webull ? i saw the website, it says free options. wondering hows the actual fills are.

I have tradier and I notice that many times i don't get fills even on the ask price. As soon as i put in the order, price moves.

[VCTX]

19 hours ago, Harshtingo said:

Can someone suggest a good broker for my trading account I am looking to start trading intially with $5000 and then gradually increase it every year 

Suggest broker where I can get discounted rates

Assuming you want to trade options, i can say that etrade is better than charles schwab. I've also heard Fidelity is bad.

Lots of people here seem to use Interactive Broker and Think Or Swim (from TD Ameritrade which recently merged with Schwab) and my understanding is that these are good options trading platforms, but I don't have experience with them. 

I may open a TOS account to play around with one of these days. I currently mainly use eTrade for options and it's ok but not great. setting up and following trades is a little cumbersome, and the analysis tools are garbage. But in general the UX is ok, I don't seem to have as much trouble with fills as some people report in the forums here, and all the basic data you need is fairly easily accessible. 

 

[R.Kinman]

I didn't see Tradestation mentioned that much in here and figured Id chime in on the platform as it's what I am currently using. Been using TS for over a year. Part of the reason is that they have a special program for military and first responders. Basically, everything is almost free. Including all the futures data like ICE etc. They also dropped the futures contracts to 0.45 cents for that program. However, I will leave that special program out in my review below. 

1. The execution has been great. The majority of my limits placed at midprice get filled with price improvements. For example, I rolled a Short Put IWM that was quoted 2.08 and they filled me 1.93. These extra profits add up.
2. If you have a plan and don't need the options graphs. The web-platform and mobile app are really solid. You can easily select your strikes and build your spread manually without using the set strategy options. 
3. Just web-platform and mobile app you can get a slightly cheaper commission. If you go the full platform route, slightly higher but competitive. 
4. The full platform comes with lots of scanners and that includes scanning options. For example large volume outside of the average and ranked etc. I'm no expert here as I just use the Anchor Trades as I don't need scanning. 
5. OptionStation Pro comes with the full platform. It's a nice tool and reminds me a lot of TOS. You can build your graphs with it. I'm sure it's not as powerful as TOS. I don't have much experience with TOS so can't comment.
6. Note: TS/Web platform/mobile app quotes options PnL on last trade price. OptionStation pro will quote at MID price. 

PROS:

1. The applications and platforms are really good. Easy to put on spreads on the mobile app or even roll your options. 
2. Currently, real time market data is free. Including futures
3. Tradingview is linked with Tradestation. Once you log in it activates the futures data to realtime.
4. Execution is great.
5. Never once have I had uptime issues. Always been able to log in. I think their site mentioned the 99% uptime. 

CONS:

1. Support has really slowed since COVID started. I think they went to a telework status. You can always reach the trade desk, but customer support may have some wait times. TS likes the account representative approach. It's nice I can just email mine directly and they see things get done. I think depending on priority I can get responses quickly or a day later. 
2. I don't think they offer portfolio margining. I never asked as I am just not at that point. 
3. Accounts are segregated between products. Equity/options is one account number, Futures is another etc. You'll have to xfer funds between the accounts in the back office. No fee for that, but it's not instant either. 
4. Assignment / exercise cost is $14.95. That one surprised me when I let some get assigned at expiration. Early assignment is 1.50 per contract (5.95 min)

 

Hope that helps anyone whose curious about TS. Cheers

Edited January 30, 2021 by R.Kinman

[Kim]

Here is latest update on IB commissions:

First, there official commissions structure is now down to 0.65/contract. But from what I can see, the average commissions are now consistently under 0.50/contract - that includes rebates. IB is getting even better now.

[IgorK]

I was Interactive Brokers user when first was with SO.

Now, when about to open an account for Simple Sperads, I see that IB offers Ligth and Pro plans. Pro obviously has acceess to SmartRouting^SM

What do you, guys, use/suggest? 

Edited April 22, 2021 by IgorK

[IgorK]

1 hour ago, IgorK said:

I was Interactive Brokers user when first was with SO.

Now, when about to open an account for Simple Sperads, I see that IB offers Ligth and Pro plans. Pro obviously has acceess to SmartRouting^SM

What do you, guys, use/suggest? 

Sorry, lite... Search didn't bring results because of misspeling. Found some info.

Edited April 23, 2021 by IgorK

[rasar]

I just noticed that on ToS, the symbol "COMP", which used to refer to the Nasdaq Composite Index, now belongs to a company called Compass.

Apparently, Compass went public earlier in April, and took that symbol. ToS now uses COMP:GIDS to refer to the Nasdaq.

What's even more confusing is that Nasdaq's own site lists COMP as the symbol for both, the Nasdaq as well as Compass.

🙄

Edited April 30, 2021 by rasar
Corrected symbol. Replaced dot with colon.

[Mattatut]

Hey guys, as I’m about to jump back into the SO game since I decided to take a year off from work and now have the time, I just wanted ask an opinion. I’ve looked at various option trading platform rankings and rarely see Fidelity mentioned. I used Fidelity before and I do like the platform. Especially because I can use them for my comprehensive banking needs (credit card, retirement account management that I rolled over, banking, research). I know their commission structure is a little higher than some that give volume discounts, but I’m curious what the other drawbacks are to using Fidelity for the bundle service. Appreciate any responses. Thanks. 
Matt

[Mattatut]

Also, I’m going to purchase the bundle and trade across all the services except futures. 

[dho99]

On 1/30/2021 at 2:31 PM, R.Kinman said:

I didn't see Tradestation mentioned that much in here and figured Id chime in on the platform as it's what I am currently using. Been using TS for over a year. Part of the reason is that they have a special program for military and first responders. Basically, everything is almost free. Including all the futures data like ICE etc. They also dropped the futures contracts to 0.45 cents for that program. However, I will leave that special program out in my review below. 

1. The execution has been great. The majority of my limits placed at midprice get filled with price improvements. For example, I rolled a Short Put IWM that was quoted 2.08 and they filled me 1.93. These extra profits add up.
2. If you have a plan and don't need the options graphs. The web-platform and mobile app are really solid. You can easily select your strikes and build your spread manually without using the set strategy options. 
3. Just web-platform and mobile app you can get a slightly cheaper commission. If you go the full platform route, slightly higher but competitive. 
4. The full platform comes with lots of scanners and that includes scanning options. For example large volume outside of the average and ranked etc. I'm no expert here as I just use the Anchor Trades as I don't need scanning. 
5. OptionStation Pro comes with the full platform. It's a nice tool and reminds me a lot of TOS. You can build your graphs with it. I'm sure it's not as powerful as TOS. I don't have much experience with TOS so can't comment.
6. Note: TS/Web platform/mobile app quotes options PnL on last trade price. OptionStation pro will quote at MID price. 

PROS:

1. The applications and platforms are really good. Easy to put on spreads on the mobile app or even roll your options. 
2. Currently, real time market data is free. Including futures
3. Tradingview is linked with Tradestation. Once you log in it activates the futures data to realtime.
4. Execution is great.
5. Never once have I had uptime issues. Always been able to log in. I think their site mentioned the 99% uptime. 

CONS:

1. Support has really slowed since COVID started. I think they went to a telework status. You can always reach the trade desk, but customer support may have some wait times. TS likes the account representative approach. It's nice I can just email mine directly and they see things get done. I think depending on priority I can get responses quickly or a day later. 
2. I don't think they offer portfolio margining. I never asked as I am just not at that point. 
3. Accounts are segregated between products. Equity/options is one account number, Futures is another etc. You'll have to xfer funds between the accounts in the back office. No fee for that, but it's not instant either. 
4. Assignment / exercise cost is $14.95. That one surprised me when I let some get assigned at expiration. Early assignment is 1.50 per contract (5.95 min)

 

Hope that helps anyone whose curious about TS. Cheers

Thanks for the Tradestation review, wasn't aware of the discount.  If I read the fine print correctly options trades are completely commission free up to 50 contracts a trade.  Has that been the case with your account?  Also, is that 50 contracts to open and close or 50 free to open and 50 free to close?

 

Thanks.

[R.Kinman]

On 5/17/2021 at 6:01 PM, dho99 said:

Thanks for the Tradestation review, wasn't aware of the discount.  If I read the fine print correctly options trades are completely commission free up to 50 contracts a trade.  Has that been the case with your account?  Also, is that 50 contracts to open and close or 50 free to open and 50 free to close?

 

Thanks.

Sorry for the late reply, I missed the notification on the post  I'm only getting charged exchange fees. I have never opened or closed anything larger then 20 contracts really. If you ever contact them and they say it's just orders of 50 contracts. Then I'd say you can submit multiple orders of 50 and never get charged. 

[dho99]

On 5/26/2021 at 7:46 AM, R.Kinman said:

Sorry for the late reply, I missed the notification on the post  I'm only getting charged exchange fees. I have never opened or closed anything larger then 20 contracts really. If you ever contact them and they say it's just orders of 50 contracts. Then I'd say you can submit multiple orders of 50 and never get charged. 

Awesome thank you

[IgorK]

Not sure if this is rigth place to post, but...

Is there an option in IB TWS to see what was the underlaying price when an order got filled? I don't see this option in Trade Log. 

Thanks in advance.

Edited June 18, 2021 by IgorK

[Kim]

Email from IB:

 

This obviously was never an issue for SO members due to our high volume activity, but still nice to see IB adapting to industry standards. Hopefully commissions will continue drifting lower as well.

[Bravesfan8989]

In reading all the discussion of fills - can someone offer a thought on IB how often they're outright missing a trade?  If I go to put on the trade as soon as I get the alert and don't chase and just leave it for the rest of day and through next how often are you just never getting the price? 

In my experience here I feel that's happening way more to me than the general chatter suggests so trying to get a frame of reference for my expectations

[Kim]

IB is definitely one of the best in terms of execution.

[techwormi]

I want to talk today about commissions.

Lets assume that you buy a straddle for $2 ($1 each option). I have an account with IB (Interactive Brokers) and pay 0.70 per contract. So for me to do a round trip trade is 2.80. This is 1.4% of the cost of the trade. So if my gain is 10%, then I keep 8.6% after commissions.

If you pay $1.5 per contract, then your total cost is $6. That's 3%. You need 3% gain just to break even.

Yes the charges are high always, one should look for discount broker

[FunkyFunk]

Hi guys,

which IB pricing model are you using? I interpreted the information page that I can choose between fixed and tiered. My account management page though just lets me change the pricing model for stocks and etf's:

"IBKR Pricing Plan: IBKR Pro; Stocks: Fixed"

Is there something to change or do I live with it?

Thanks a lot 

 

[krisbee]

Is anyone using ApexClearing account to see the positions? Last 2-3 days it doesn't work for me

[rasar]

1 hour ago, krisbee said:

Is anyone using ApexClearing account to see the positions? Last 2-3 days it doesn't work for me

I don't use Apex to view my positions, as such, but I just tried it and if this (below) was what it looks like, it worked fine for me...

[krisbee]

Thanks @rasar is the "Activity" page working?

[rasar]

3 minutes ago, krisbee said:

Thanks @rasar is the "Activity" page working?

Yes. It works for me.

[krisbee]

Just now, rasar said:

Yes. It works for me.

 

Hmm.... I need to find the customer service number first.  Thanks for confirming.

[krisbee]

3 hours ago, krisbee said:

Is anyone using ApexClearing account to see the positions? Last 2-3 days it doesn't work for me

Update: Opening in Incognito window worked fine. (customer support suggested this)

[Ringandpinion]

@krisbee I gotta ask, what is Apex Clearing?  Your broker?  Do you send trades to it from another platform like you would from ONE to IB or such?

[krisbee]

12 minutes ago, Ringandpinion said:

@krisbee I gotta ask, what is Apex Clearing?  Your broker?  Do you send trades to it from another platform like you would from ONE to IB or such?

Apexclearing is the clearing house for Tradier Brokerage. I login to that to see all the trade details, download tax forms etc., I think they are the one for Robinhood as well. 

[rasar]

Just now, krisbee said:

Apexclearing is the clearing house for Tradier Brokerage. I login to that to see all the trade details, download tax forms etc., I think they are the one for Robinhood as well. 

... and for TastyWorks/TastyTrade.

[Ringandpinion]

5 minutes ago, krisbee said:

Apexclearing is the clearing house for Tradier Brokerage. I login to that to see all the trade details, download tax forms etc., I think they are the one for Robinhood as well. 

Thanks, I don't feel quite as stupid now.  They looked like a data service when I went to their site, so now I know that, yep, they are a data service.

[Bullfighter]

Webull uses APEX too. Not that anyone here would use them for options... but they were big with meme stock chasers

Edited January 27, 2022 by Bullfighter

[Sunshine25]

Wanted to check with community on reco for who to use for brokerage. I’m using think or swim right now. Don’t like .65 per option fee. Would like to lower that as much as possible and still have solid service levels.  Thanks

[Ringandpinion]

@Sunshine25 I use TOS.  I put up with the .65 fee for a while and after I showed a little volume they took me down to .45 on my main account but left the .65 on my IRA's.  I called and whined the next year and they gave me .40 on all three accounts.  That's where I am now.  I know at least one person that has gotten them down to .25.  That's my target after this year, I may not get .25 but I think I can get it down a little further.  We'll see.  Several SO members have mentioned Tradier (I think) that has a flat fee per month, I'm just so accustomed to TOS that I don't want to change.

[LunchtimeTrader]

My how things have changed... It wasn't that long ago (10 years?) that TOS charged something like $2.50 per contract, and then then TDA bought them, TDA charged (IIRC) a $9.99 ticket fee, plus $0.65 per contract.

Up until Robinhood, around 3 years ago(?), TOS offered $1.50 per contract, no ticket charge, some got them down a little cheaper I think.

Robinhood got somewhat of a bad rap, but they changed the commissions game for sure...

[Kim]

Yes, and IB was the cheapest 10 years ago and still remains one of the cheapest. No negotiation skills needed with IB, everyone gets the same rate (unless you do huge volume with them). 

Personally I never liked TOS. I know their interface is good, but they are very arrogant, and I don't like to have to beg for rate reduction. And even after the negotiations, most people would still pay less with IB.

[Sunshine25]

17 hours ago, Sunshine25 said:

Wanted to check with community on reco for who to use for brokerage. I’m using think or swim right now. Don’t like .65 per option fee. Would like to lower that as much as possible and still have solid service levels.  Thanks

[Sunshine25]

Thanks all for the info. I do have IB demo version with paper trading. User interface on mobile device wasn’t as intuitive as TOS. I currently place 99% of trades on mobile so looking for nice user interface. TOS doesn’t allow for 5 leg trades though. Does IB?
For now, I think I’ll call TOS and ask for a reduction. When SO does lower priced straddles ($2.00 or less) the volume of contracts needed makes the commissions add up. Need to gain 3% on straddle trades just to break even against commissions sometimes. 
thanks again all

Edited July 27, 2022 by Sunshine25
Typo

[Sandor]

I use TastyWorks and just got out of the weekly SPY combo trade.

On the position management screen, the greeks don't move much and my main problem was that I couldn't have a proper IV column. There is an IV/Exp (IV Expiry) column but that hasn't changed since morning. 

Is it possible to monitor live positions' IV and greeks in TastyWorks somehow? (I used to use IB and there the numbers kept changing all the time.)

[JohnW]

 

I created a Tradier account a couple of weeks ago, with TradeHawk to trade it. Lured in by the zero commissions.

Thus far, I'm frustrated. I'll enter a SO trade in ThinkOrSwim and have it execute immediately. I'll enter the exact same trade in TradeHawk, and it just sits there. I'll increase the debit, and it still sits. The amount I would save over TOS in commissions is not worth having more expensive executions.

Customer Service said "We have reviewed the spread trades and have reported the results to our clearing firm. "

More liquid instruments (options on VIX or SPY) seem to execute same as TOS. But most of our Straddles/Strangles thus far have not. Granted, it has only been a couple of weeks.

I'm wondering if any of you Tradier users can tell me that this is just an anomaly. Should I be patient a little longer, or punt?

Oh, and I also noticed that they calculate the value of options based on their Last Trade (which could have been hours ago), rather than the midpoint of the most recent bid/ask. (Thus different from TOS.) This has made my account balance pretty wonky on some days. 

 

[volatility trader]

hi @JohnW I have been using Tradier for about 6 months now as well as IBKR. My experience on tradier is similar to yours, for straddles, strangles and calendar spreads, the execution is much poorer. When I enter the mid price the orders often don't get filled immediately, and I often have to pay over the mid price for the order to be filled. On the other hand the SPY and QQQ combo spreads seem to fill equally well for tradier and IBKR. Execution for straddles, strangles and calendars are much better for IBKR, I often am able to get the mid prices. Therefore I use tradier primarily for the SPY/QQQ combo trades and IBKR for the straddles, strangles and calendars.

[rasar]

19 hours ago, JohnW said:

I'm wondering if any of you Tradier users can tell me that this is just an anomaly. Should I be patient a little longer, or punt?

I use Tradier and Thinkorswim simultaneously. The ease or difficulty of fills is pretty much similar across both. The market makers seem to have become a little more evil, though, which might explain your current issues.

[krisbee]

18 minutes ago, rasar said:

I use Tradier and Thinkorswim simultaneously. The ease or difficulty of fills is pretty much similar across both. The market makers seem to have become a little more evil, though, which might explain your current issues.

I concur with @rasar

I use Tradier most of the time, I don't have any issues with the fills. 

I frequently communicate and share ideas in private messages with TOS and Tradier users, we never had a chat about the fills issue. 

[JohnW]

Thanks, @volatility trader, @rasar, @krisbee. I'll be patient a wee bit longer, I guess, to see if it improves But I had two more lagging trades today vs TOS (one being closing out the QQQ combo, the other the new NKE hedged strangle), so I'm losing patience rapidly. (I submitted the Tradier ones first, BTW, in case there were liquidity issues. But TOS was still immediate, Tradier was quite a bit longer.)

A follow-up email from their customer service postulated that TOS might be filling some trades internally. I'm not convinced that explains everything I'm seeing.

[rasar]

Looks like Tradier just barfed. Website and API services are non-functional.