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I don't agree that paper trading is "absolutely useless," but I completely agree that it won't help a trader develop the emotion-management skills necessary to be a good trader. As you say, it's not the same when you know the money isn't real. But this circles back to the basic problem under discussion. You've got members complaining to Kim and Yowster that they aren't replicating the official performance (or coming close to it). There can be only three possible reasons for that: the trader isn't sizing, entering, managing, and exiting the trade correctly from a strictly technical standpoint (completely excluding the emotional component); the trader isn't sizing, entering, managing, and exiting the trade correctly from a strictly emotional standpoint; and/or the trader is doing everything correctly both technically and emotionally, but it is literally impossible to match the entries and exits of the official trades. Paper trading absolutely helps with #1, especially with complex options strategies. Changes in IV are difficult to model, and you really need to see them to understand them. Paper trading is far and away the best tactic to help with this, since you can practice the technical side and observe the trade behavior with zero risk. Paper trading won't help with #2, as you correctly say. But if #2 is the trader's only problem, then I humbly suggest that the trader really isn't at the point in their development yet where they should be paying someone else money for trades to follow. Good picks can't overcome trader emotion. Things have a way of falling into place once the emotional side is in order. The theory being urged by a few folks is that #3 is the real problem--and apparently in some folks' minds, the only problem. On the one hand, I completely agree that no one will ever be able to consistently get the same entries and exits as the official on every trade. That's true of most advisory-type services, and it's definitely true of any service that trades in multi-legged option strategies. It is hardly an SO-specific issue. But on the other hand, it's demonstrably true that you can get better entries or better exits on many SO trades. The rub is, doing so requires the trader to be on point with items #1 and #2 above. So then we're back to the issue being either one that paper trading can solve (#1), or one that it can't solve but that suggests the trader should focus on the emotional side before paying for a service (#2). Just my two cents, as usual. Take all with a grain of salt, etc.

I've read this whole thread . . . nice to see it kind of come full circle - back to more of a constructive tone. It is very hard to have good "context" when using remote "conversations" via the WEB - so we all need to have a flexible and empathetic attitude when discussing ideas, Pros/Cons, issues, etc.. Good to see that most of us really do want a positive and productive discussion (even if we have to circle around a few times). In addition to your two points above, I'd like to add a third one (with some background): One of the lessons I've learned (and the hard way - as always) is that it is VERY easy to actually get into trades . . . and it is a lot harder to get out of them. This is especially true when things aren't going your way. Most non-professional traders tend to put too much hope and blind optimism into their trades - they don't manage their risk well (getting into and especially getting out of trades). It is easy to be emotionally involved with a trade - and not let it go and move onto the next. Overall trade and risk management is KEY to making money in the equity markets - all of them. I've learned to manage my trades a LOT better due to what I've learned on SO --- and this applies to general stock picks as well as options plays. To me (outside of good entry strategies), it is the most important thing I do. When something isn't working, get out of it, stop doing it, re-group, review your trade logs, seek help, etc.. Don't keep riding a three-legged horse, hoping it turns into a four-legged horse. Also, we have to remind ourselves of the fundamentals --- did we have a good setup/strategy, has anything changed in the overall market or context that requires us to adapt/morph what we do? These last few months have caused me to constantly review/analyze what works FOR ME and what doesn't. In the end, we are all responsible for adapting what we learn on SO to our style of trading - given our time allotments, account size, technology we use, mindset, emotional makeup, etc.. I give @Kim, @Yowster and many others credit for showing their ugly babies, discussing what isn't working - in THIS market and being willing/able to adapt and change. This is key . . . Anyway, too much coffee on a Saturday morning . . . . hope you ALL have a fantastic weekend and a very successful next week in the markets!

Take it from an old guy that isn't accustomed to posting on a forum as a form of communication. If this group were sitting around in a room having this debate, the body language would most likely change everybody's experience to a more friendly character. A lot can be said with a smile or comic roll of the eyes to take the sting out of words that are true or not. When it is in this form, it just gets mean. I love to argue, my wife says that I would be fine arguing with myself, a mirror and a tape recorder. I don't mean ill to anybody here, if we were in person, I would be hopping up and down, shouting and smiling, and probably buying the beer. These forums are great for communication, but they aren't very good for empathy. Body language is a bigger part of our world than a lot of people think.