Trading and getting fills with Interactive Brokers

[cwerdna 12]

@kowski06, I use Advanced Order Management... I actually think that the Mosaic view is harder to use.

Yeah, I found the Mosiac view to be really confusing and it seemed like many (most?) of the tutorials and documentation assumed you're using Advanced Order Management. I switched to AOM and am planning to stick with it.

It really depends how much are you paying at TOS. As I understand, unlike IB, TOS does negotiate commissions. SO if you get around 1.00-1.20 per contract (all inclusive), it is probably not worth to move.

I don't know of anyone who's negotiated that low and how much activity or assets are needed. I don't know if it's possible. I got mine down to $1.25/contract at TOS. When I was paying $2.95/contract, I was doing $700+/month on average in commissions w/them YTD. I also have a LOT of assets at TD Ameritrade (between my TD AM account, my TOS regular account and my TOS IRA), so I think that helped.

FWIW, I had 2 fills on spreads that weren't Steady Options plays on IB. They commissions came out to $1.26/contract and $1.06/contract, respectively.

Actually IB terminology is pretty much in line with the common terminology - http://en.wikipedia....iki/Iron_condor:

...

After couple of trades you just get used to it. When the order confirmation window opens, just make sure that you are doing what you intended to do.

Interesting.

TOS doesn't use negative prices. Instead, they go the more natural way, dispensing with formal definitions in order to have a more clean user interface. For instance, TOS debit trades are always a buy; credit trades are always a sell. Thus, on TOS when opening a trade, you'd buy a RIC and sell an IC (the opposite of the way you'd make the same trade on IB).

Agreed. TOS' way is more natural.

[Guest listolyman]

How do i place a vertical roll in IB? In TOS it's a strategy option.

[Kim 7,958]

How do i place a vertical roll in IB? In TOS it's a strategy option.

You just build the combo leg by leg.

[Kim 7,958]

Just got the following response from IB regarding the add/remove liquidity fees:

"Since you are entering spreads, the order is not able to add liquidity to the individual leg markets. Spreads are entered with a net price. Once the spread comes marketable, in most cases it will remove liquidity from the exchange and therefore incur the fee."

Unbelievable..

[RobertB 5]

I have a slightly different take on this. On first read this may not be a popular opinion, but I think it should be presented.

We all know that there are no free lunches. Only socialists and those not versed in economics think so. I would be very surprised to find very many socialists here on this board full of individualists (not to get too political here). We traders are an individualist breed by nature, and I don't assume anyone here, upon reflection, believes that the world is full of free lunches. Other than within families, free lunches do not exist.

Regarding IBs fees. I prefer IB's system of various fees passed on to me when appropriate than to higher set commission rates without fees. If I place a trade that removes liquidity, for instance, and by my doing so incur a fee to IB, I have no problem with IB's passing that fee onto me. The only way IB can profitably provide rock-bottom, no minimum purchase, commissions is by passing on fees when they occur. It is annoying, I must admit, not to always know what the precise commissions will be in advance for any particular trade. But I prefer that to higher-priced, but known-in-advance, commissions offered by IB's competitors. For instance, with TOS I get a known-in-advance rate of $1.25 per contract. But IB, even with all its potential fees, will always be less than that. (However, for some, perhaps knowing in advance the precise commissions is worth the extra price; if so, that's totally fine, of course.)

The bottom line is that I understand the $0.70 per contract IB commission rate to be just the base price with possible credits and debits added or subtracted. Transaction costs come in from many areas. I'm just happy that IB has been able to get its own costs down to where it can profitably offer $0.70 contracts, give or take. If IB wanted to set an invariant, fixed commission rate (no fees, no rebates, etc.) it would probably raise its commissions rate to somewhere between $1 and $1.25 per contract, which in the long run--even though you'd avoid the annoyance of not knowing fully the commissions in advance--would result in higher prices overall. Again, there are no free lunches (as we all know).

[Guest listolyman]

I agree with you Robert. However, the response that Kim received is not logical. Liquidity should be a wash even with multi-leg trades. If the trade removes liquidity when buying then selling should add liquidity. The only place that a trip to the library is uphill both ways is in an eschere drawing. If they need to charge more then just charge more(e.g. $1/contract with no extra fees). Maybe liquidity is more complicated than i understand.

[RobertB 5]

Listolyman, Thanks.

Just to be clear, I wasn't directly responding to what Kim wrote. I was making general comments regarding fees versus fixed costs.

IB's technical support leaves much to be desired. I believe that was the point Kim was making. I totally agree.

[Kim 7,958]

Robert, I agree with your take. My biggest problem with IB is 1) Lack of transparency (those fees are not clearly described and could be unpredictable in many cases) 2) Complete lack of understanding of their stuff. I mean, look at their response - why it should matter that this is a spread?

That said, I agree that as a package (commissions, platform, execution etc.) IB is still unbeatable.

[Thaze 4]

Did this myself on the RUT condor trade.

Ok, on Wednesday, on IB I placed an order for the RUT September 2012 IC (http://steadyoptions...12-iron-condor/). I placed it w/a limit "buy" price of $4.75 and it looks like it got filled at $4.49 and thus received a lot less credit than I should have. When I go to Trade Log and I see a price of -4.49 and if I add/subtract the option prices for each leg, it comes out to -4.49. I've attached that as ib-tradelog.png.

I looked at Account > Audit Trail (expanded) and can definitely see an Execution report w/a LmtPrice of $4.75 and a LastPx of -4.49.

Am I placing my orders wrong?

I go into OptionTrader, type RUT, click on Options Spreads, select Iron Condor but the only way I can match the IC structure that Kim has in his post is to select Buy Combo (even though this would be a net credit transaction). I've attached what this looks like as ib1.png

If I use Sell Combo (makes sense to me, since it's a net credit transaction), once I select sell 710 put, there's no way I can select the 700 put to buy. I've attached that as ib2-stuck.png.

Should I be putting a negative value in the LimitPx (e.g. -4.75) in the trading area (circled in red)? Or, should I be manually entering the spreads and not using their predefined strategies? Or, am I misunderstanding/misreading something and making a dumb mistake?

Do you think I should place an opposite order to close out the trade for say ~$4.49 or so and try to enter again w/~$4.75 credit?

Side note: My commission here was $1.24/contract, a whopping penny savings over my TOS rate.

I'm definitely not used to IB's UI. In TOS, I pretty darn hard to get the (+/-) sign wrong in their entry tool. It specifically says credit or debit and changes color (pink/green). Also, there's that price slider at the bottom which I use a lot. I can properly select all the strikes and when I do a limit order that's a credit transaction, I know it'll do the right thing.

Did the exact same thing myself, except it hit me ALOT harder. Put a bid in for 4.90 (positive) on two condors and they both filled for an average of -3.05 each, so I'm definitely going to be regretting this one. Wish I would've known about this in advance. Hopefully we'll make enough that I can break even and adjust accordingly next time.

[RobertB 5]

Thaze,

Browse this entire topic. Less than a week ago we discussed this issue. Check out posts dated around July 27th.

It really is unconscionable for IB to make users deal with negative prices. But that is the reality. This issue arises only when IB considers a credit trade as a buy and a debit trade as a sell, such as for iron condors and reverse iron condors, respectively. Apparently, it was too much trouble for IB's software designers to create software that handles this anomaly for you!

[cwerdna 12]

Thaze,

Browse this entire topic. Less than a week ago we discussed this issue. Check out posts dated around July 27th.

It really is unconscionable for IB to make users deal with negative prices. But that is the reality. This issue arises only when IB considers a credit trade as a buy and a debit trade as a sell, such as for iron condors and reverse iron condors, respectively. Apparently, it was too much trouble for IB's software designers to create software that handles this anomaly for you!

FWIW, on the above (not wanting to take this too far OT), I encountered my 1st case of confusing negative pricing on TOS the other day, but not with IC or RIC (where TOS' behavior makes sense to me). It was involving a 1x2 put spread (buying a Dec 2012 14 put on something and selling two Dec 2012 7 puts).

[Xfanman 9]

Made my first trade on IB this morning. Not exactly intuitive but Combo Builder wasn't horrible. I'll have to be careful of the negative pricing when I do my first IC. Thanks for the warnings on that!!

[cwerdna 12]

Is there a way to get Trade Log to go back further than a week? I'm looking for some view that nicely shows combo trades I made in the past. Trade Logs does it but seems to have that week cutoff.

[xpresstalk 3]

OK, so I am fully funded and ready to start trading on IB. It would appear that I have delayed market data. I am putting in mid price for what I am seeing quoted and never getting filled. I checked OX for the same trade. Their bid/ask totally different than IB. A pop-up frequently comes up and says do you want delayed quotes? Anyone know a quick fix to my dilemma? I must have done something wrong on set-up

[Xfanman 9]

You need to select a Data plan. Select the US Bundle and if you have more than $30/mth in commission fees it's free otherwise they charge you $10/mth for it.

[xpresstalk 3]

You need to select a Data plan. Select the US Bundle and if you have more than $30/mth in commission fees it's free otherwise they charge you $10/mth for it.

Thank You Xfanman!

[Xfanman 9]

Thank You Xfanman!

Glad I could help!

[Guest listolyman]

I ran across this on the IB site

• Flat Rate - You are charged a single flat rate that includes all commissions and fees. You are not charged separately for exchange fees, clearing fees, regulatory fees, etc.
  
• Cost-Plus - You are charged a smaller, volume-based commission that does not include exchange, clearing, regulatory or other third-party fees. You are charged separately on a pass-through basis for those fees. You may be eligible to receive rebates depending on the types of orders you place (i.e., exchange rebates for adding liquidity).
  

Any ideas if/what the flat rate cost is for options contracts?

[Xfanman 9]

I ran across this on the IB site

• Flat Rate - You are charged a single flat rate that includes all commissions and fees. You are not charged separately for exchange fees, clearing fees, regulatory fees, etc.
  
• Cost-Plus - You are charged a smaller, volume-based commission that does not include exchange, clearing, regulatory or other third-party fees. You are charged separately on a pass-through basis for those fees. You may be eligible to receive rebates depending on the types of orders you place (i.e., exchange rebates for adding liquidity).
  

Any ideas if/what the flat rate cost is for options contracts?

I don't believe IB uses a Flat Rate for Options only Stocks, ETF's and Warrants according to their Fee Schedule.

You can see their Fee Schedule here -->

http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/p.php?f=commission

Edited August 1, 2012 by Xfanman

[Marco 223]

Just got the following response from IB regarding the add/remove liquidity fees:

"Since you are entering spreads, the order is not able to add liquidity to the individual leg markets. Spreads are entered with a net price. Once the spread comes marketable, in most cases it will remove liquidity from the exchange and therefore incur the fee."

Unbelievable..

Hard to believe indeed. I'm sure I had commissions below 0.70 on spreads before, but maybe it is quite rare as they say. There's always the chance though that the answer you got is wrong

Wouldn't be the first time...

[Thaze 4]

Thaze,

Browse this entire topic. Less than a week ago we discussed this issue. Check out posts dated around July 27th.

It really is unconscionable for IB to make users deal with negative prices. But that is the reality. This issue arises only when IB considers a credit trade as a buy and a debit trade as a sell, such as for iron condors and reverse iron condors, respectively. Apparently, it was too much trouble for IB's software designers to create software that handles this anomaly for you!

I agree that I should have browsed the threads a bit more before placing the positive bid, but I just assumed it was a "glitch". I just assumed their incompetent technicians would have programmed this in correctly so that users would not have to deal with negative numbers. Oh well, lesson learned.

[xpresstalk 3]

OK, so now I see what y'all have been talking about on the negative numbers! Once I enter a position, I like to enter a "dream" limit sell order. (I know IB is gonna charge me to modify, right?). At any rate, it helps me when busy with my job to be able to adjust the sell quickly! So, the LNKD trade I set-up a GTC order to sell for $5.00. It reads as a positive number. Then I set-up a order to sell the DIS Straddle for $2.76. This immediately reads as a negative trade. I choose the option to sell. Yet, it reads as a Buy. I immediately canceled the order. I have used TOS, OX, and Zecco. Nothing so far has been as complected as IB. Quite a learning curve! I used the TWS to enter this trade under the combo section. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong here?

[RobertB 5]

Xpresstalk,

I urge you to setup an IB paper trading account to safely try out a lot of these orders. IB is complicated, but it is, nevertheless, totally learnable.

As far as I know, selling for a credit should not display negative numbers. I don't understand why you'd see negative numbers for selling a DIS straddle.

Concerning cancellation/modify fees, two things to keep in mind: 1) There are no cancellation/modify fees for multi-legged orders--thus spreads are immune from these fees; 2) Orders that have not been sent to an exchange yet, such as orders that are outside the current bid/ask range, do not incur these fees because they just sit in IB's servers waiting for the market to move. Only when sent to an exchange, which usually occurs only when the order has a chance of being filled, does it possibly incur these cancellation/modify fees.

Edited August 1, 2012 by RobertB

[xpresstalk 3]

Oh, makes sense! Thank You RobertB!

[xpresstalk 3]

Xpresstalk,

I urge you to setup an IB paper trading account to safely try out a lot of these orders. IB is complicated, but it is, nevertheless, totally learnable.

As far as I know, selling for a credit should not display negative numbers. I don't understand why you'd see negative numbers for selling a DIS straddle.

Concerning cancellation/modify fees, two things to keep in mind: 1) There are no cancellation/modify fees for multi-legged orders--thus spreads are immune from these fees; 2) Orders that have not been sent to an exchange yet, such as orders that are outside the current bid/ask range, do not incur these fees because they just sit in IB's servers waiting for the market to move. Only when sent to an exchange, which usually occurs only when the order has a chance of being filled, does it possibly incur these cancellation/modify fees.

OK, so I just tried again. Still negative! I should have taken your advice on the paper trading. Unfortunately, I already have 2 open positions. Just entered same trade using Webtrader and got a positive number. Maybe, I just need to enter orders via Webtrader for now! Below is TWS:

Edited August 1, 2012 by xpresstalk

[RobertB 5]

Xpresstalk,

I see the screenshot you posted. I usually do not use that particular screen. It appears to me that IB is in this case using the negative price as a redundant indicator that you are initiating a credit trade. Kind of what you'd see on a spreadsheet tally of your bank account: positive values are deposits; negative values are withdrawals (or vice-versa). This screen is different from the order entry screen, which is the screen I've been referring to when discussing negative values.

I've attached two screenshots. One shows a sample IB order entry window for selling a DIS straddle. Notice there are no negative values for this credit trade. The other screenshot shows a sample IB order entry for selling (using IB's terminology) an iron condor (what we refer to here as a RIC). In normal conversation, since a RIC is a debit trade, I would refer to it as a "buy". However, IB refers to it as a "sell," presumably based on the formal definition of an iron condor. The IB negative values I've been referring to are of these sort. As I've said elsewhere, when IB refers to a debit trade as a "sell," such as for a RIC, you will see negative values (in the order entry window).

[xpresstalk 3]

Thanks again RobertB!

[Xfanman 9]

Something I'm learning to appreciate on IB that OH doesn't have is the ability to watch a combo order (IC, RIC, Straddle, Strangle etc) on a chart with my limit order price displayed on the chart. It's a great visual aid to be able to pull these charts up and get a quick snapshot of where the trade is at and if it's approaching my target without having to refer back to notes or dig deeper into the platform. Although I could quickly tell whether a position was positive or negative on OH, having my target automatically included on a graph showing the actual combo price instead of just the underlying is REALLY nice!

[Xfanman 9]

So I really screwed the pooch today when I got the CSCO trade alert while on the road and I jumped on my iPad to enter the trade. I'm getting better with IB on my desktop but haven't used the mobile apps too much yet. I entered the straddle and adjusted the number of contracts to what I "thought" was my correct position size. I hit BUY and the confirmation window pops up but there is NO net total value of the trade?? The desktop platform gives you the transaction value but the mobile app for some reason does not. I push confirm because now I'm finishing up in my shrinks office while she's waiting for me and boom...I've just bought 10 times the number of contracts of CSCO I intended too buy!!

Apparently there's a position size multiplier on IB that I have set at 10 ( I'm guessing at this point because I just got home and haven't confirmed this yet) and instead of buying 20 contracts ( 10 of ea side) I ended up buying 200. I'll see where the trade is tomorrow but this is too large of a position for my comfort level in this one trade.

Whoops

Edited August 8, 2012 by Xfanman

[Xfanman 9]

Anyone using a screen setup they really like on IB for either Mosaic (which I'm currently using) or the regular TWS front end? I'm playing around with different screen setups but if you have something that works nicely for you that you wouldn't mind sharing I (and maybe others) would love to see it!

Thanks -- Scott

Edited August 13, 2012 by Xfanman

[Xfanman 9]

Someone mentioned the Options Rollover screen on IB the other day and I pulled it up this morning to look at Rolling the SPY put to next week. It looks pretty handy if you have a lot of positions and need to sort them out. If you use IB and haven't looked at it it's under the Advanced Tools/More Advanced Tools/Rollover Options.

[Xfanman 9]

I've heard a number of people complain about cancellation fees in IB and I got hit with my first one the other day. What I may have stumbled on though is yesterday instead of cancelling an order I had that I knew I didn't want to take the trade on I simply changed my order to DAY and put a really low Limit amount on it knowing it wouldn't get filled (and if it did at that price good for me). Anyway, no cancellation charge today as it just cleared their system last night. I have no data other than this one experience to say if this will work every time or not but it appears to have worked for me this one time and I'll try it again when I need to cancel something in the future.

Just an FYI.

[Dawajmeister 43]

So I opened a IB Account, waiting for funds to hit, but I downloaded their mobile app for Android and I don't see any way to place a straddle order, or anything more than a single call/put. Any ideas?

[Xfanman 9]

On the iPhone (which I would think would be damn near the same) from the Main Menu select Order Ticket, type in your underlying, then select Option Chain & Combo Builder and go from there.

[Dawajmeister 43]

I went to order ticket put in ibm where it says select contract.. it pulled up an option to click on stock futures options.. then more stuff for the mexi and fwb exchanges..

when I click on options it only lets me choose expiry, put or call and strike...

[Xfanman 9]

When you select IBM it should give you a menu that lists -->

Stock

Futures

Options

Option Chain & Combo Builder

Does yours not have the last menu item?

[Dawajmeister 43]

Nope.. well that sucks... pointless app ...

[Xfanman 9]

Now I'm REALLY confused. I've been doing pretty well with IB and then this morning I go to put in a LMT order for DELL to close the position and my order screen says BUY to Close. I've already got a LMT order in to close HPQ and it says SELL to Close. When the pop up comes up when I hover over the orders DELL has a blue BUY tab and says "To Buy 1 Straddle means SELL and to SELL 1 Straddle means BUY. HPQ has a red SELL tab (which is what my order screen normally does) and says "To BUY 1 Straddle means BUY and to SELL 1 Straddle means SELL". Any idea why I'd have opposite behaviors on the same Order screen for 2 different order tickets? I did create the DELL ticket in Options Trader because my existing Straddle didn't show up on my drop down tab today. I created the HPQ order via the drop down.

Very confusing...thanks...Scott

Edited August 20, 2012 by Xfanman

[Xfanman 9]

Ok I see part of the problem, the DELL order is a Negative # and the HPQ is a Positive. Why they were loaded separately I don't know. Also, when I change the DELL order to a positive number it doesn't change the BUY/SELL pop up information.

What's the best "easiest" way you other IB users preload orders in IB?

[Marco 223]

Ok I see part of the problem, the DELL order is a Negative # and the HPQ is a Positive. Why they were loaded separately I don't know. Also, when I change the DELL order to a positive number it doesn't change the BUY/SELL pop up information.

What's the best "easiest" way you other IB users preload orders in IB?

not sure whether you are talking about the mobile platform or TWS. But on TWS I usually bring up the option trader (which shows you the option chain with strikes and expiries) and use the 'combo' tab under 'trading' to add the strategy leg by leg (click on bids asks in the option chain) I always enter it in a way that it comes up as a positive premium (for that you'll have to enter the larger premium leg as a buy) no matter whther I want to buy it or sell (short) it. This way the buy/sell action does make a lot more sense to me (for example I sell a condor on the RUT for our 'income trade' (=IC) and I buy a condor on our earnings trades (=RIC)

Don't know if thats the 'easiest' way but that's what works for me.

[Xfanman 9]

Thanks Marco, that's how I usually enter an order also when I'm purchasing a Combo. Do you do the same thing to sell that combo or do you use Close Position or something else?

Thanks again...Scott

[Marco 223]

Thanks Marco, that's how I usually enter an order also when I'm purchasing a Combo. Do you do the same thing to sell that combo or do you use Close Position or something else?

Thanks again...Scott

well once I'm in a position I would add it to a watchlist (again with a positive premium regardless whether I'm long or short) and then sell it or buy it back from there.

Have only used a 'close position' button once and that liquidated my entire portfolio not quite sure what I did then but was at the very beginning at IB and thankfully I didn't have many positions yet so could easily re enter them and 'only' had to pay the comm to get back in - anyway since then I stay away from any close position button even though I'm sure I could learn how to use it properly if I'd look at the manual.

[Xfanman 9]

well once I'm in a position I would add it to a watchlist (again with a positive premium regardless whether I'm long or short) and then sell it or buy it back from there.

Have only used a 'close position' button once and that liquidated my entire portfolio not quite sure what I did then but was at the very beginning at IB and thankfully I didn't have many positions yet so could easily re enter them and 'only' had to pay the comm to get back in - anyway since then I stay away from any close position button even though I'm sure I could learn how to use it properly if I'd look at the manual.

Well I have used the Close Position selection before but somehow didn't manage to sell everything so I must be doing "something" right

Just to be safe I sold 1 contract of DELL first just to make certain it had the desired results, then I sold half of that position successfully. I STILL don't know what's different about this order than all the other ones I've done but as long as the pop ups remain accurate I should be ok. I did update the platform this morning I wonder if they changed something...I'll have to go check the change log to see.

Thanks for your help.....Scott

[Kelly Park 10]

Well, maybe y'all can figure this one out.

In IB, I always use OptionTrader/Combo to setup my multileg trades, because it is the only way I know how to do it so far. When I mouse click the options I am interested in, they populate the combo order form, but IB decides whether it is initially entered as a buy or sell of each leg. I change it, if I need to. Usually, the first leg I choose is entered as a buy, then the next is a sell. It then alternates. But recently, they are all entered as sells. It would be nice to set this, so it is consistent, but I don't know how.

Today, IB decided to do it backwards from usual and I did not catch it, so I ended up doubling my HPQ position, instead of closing them. I caught the error as soon as it filled. (Filling immediately is what got my attention.) So I did a sell order for all of them and fortunately was able to get out at the price I had originally intended.

Later in the day, when I went to enter another sell order on another position, IB rejected the order, saying that I was a Pattern Day Trader and needed more money in my account. How in the heck did I get to be a PDT with one quick reversal of an erroneous order? And will they really keep you in a position that is time limited becasue of an administartive issue. Fideloty has told me that they will NEVER keep you from closing a position, only opening a new one.

[Xfanman 9]

Kelly, If you click specifically on the BID or ASK price (on the option chain line) while building your Combo it will populate the Buy and Sell side automatically for both the Put and Call legs.

As for you running afoul of the PDT rules I don't know what IB will do but OptionsHouse would let you close out any position you had entered into. I would hope IB would be the same way but I'd call them as soon as you can to make sure. Also, as you probably already know, each opening and closing of a leg of a spread counts as a round trip transaction as far as PDT is concerned so you could feasibly exceed the PDT rules by entering and existing just one IC on the same day

Maybe IB will cut you some slack since you got out of the trade right away but I wouldn't count on it....Good Luck.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Xfanman

[smt1 2]

I've loved IB/TWS so much more after I learned to put each trade (or ticker) in its own quote page/tab (hat tip, Kim, I think). Makes tracking things so much easier.

[Xfanman 9]

I've loved IB/TWS so much more after I learned to put each trade (or ticker) in its own quote page/tab (hat tip, Kim, I think). Makes tracking things so much easier.

I've seen Kim state that but haven't tried it. I wonder if I can do that in Mosaic? I'll play around with it later thanks.

[Guest listolyman]

I prefer to put all of my trades on the same tab so that i can view multiple trades at the same time.

[Kelly Park 10]

Kelly, If you click specifically on the BID or ASK price (on the option chain line) while building your Combo it will populate the Buy and Sell side automatically for both the Put and Call legs.

As for you running afoul of the PDT rules I don't know what IB will do but OptionsHouse would let you close out any position you had entered into. I would hope IB would be the same way but I'd call them as soon as you can to make sure. Also, as you probably already know, each opening and closing of a leg of a spread counts as a round trip transaction as far as PDT is concerned so you could feasibly exceed the PDT rules by entering and existing just one IC on the same day

Maybe IB will cut you some slack since you got out of the trade right away but I wouldn't count on it....Good Luck.

Thanks, Scott. I knew there had to be a way, but never quite tumbled to it.

Does anyone know if there is more to being listed as a PDT than just needing 25K in your account. Doesn't it affect IRS treatment of your gains? I don't want to day trade, but entering and exiting a RIC in the same day, either to take a quick gain or cut a loss, is quite possible.

[Dawajmeister 43]

So I started using IB yesterday on the webtrader.. to close out a straddle do I just enter in an opposite sell to close order in the spread part?