SteadyOptions is an options trading forum where you can find solutions from top options traders. Join Us!

We’ve all been there… researching options strategies and unable to find the answers we’re looking for. SteadyOptions has your solution.

Yes, We Are Playing Not to Lose!


There are many trading quotes from different traders/investors, but this one is one of my favorites: “In trading/investing it's not about how much you make, but how much you don't lose" - Bernard Baruch. At SteadyOptions, this has been one of our major goals in the last 12 years.

A few weeks ago we introduced a new strategy to our members. While a double diagonal spread is a well known strategy, we are trading it with a tweak. The double diagonal strategy is part of SteadyOptions service, along with straddles, strangles, calendars etc.

One of our members have mentioned that "I realize they are lower risk in the sense that they can be open longer without big losses, but feels to me like playing not to lose."
 

Here is a response from our contributor @Yowster who introduced the strategy:
 

Well... Lay me outline reasons why I like them (and I've been doing a ton more of them in personal trades in addition to the official ones, and are tracking even more of them).

  • They are extremely low risk, of all the trades I've had on or tracked only one (a DE personal trade) was down by 10% or more at any given time provided I exit prior to T-0, and I wound up able to close that one for a small gain.   I've had many make gains of 15% or more (NVDA, SQ, PANW were recent trades I closed within the past few days that fall into this category).
     
  • Of the trades I've placed since January (about 25 of them), roughly 75% of them have been winning trades with an average gain across winners and losers of ~5% (and there were a few large winners like BA and MRNA that I only tracked and didn't have on).   I compare the results to straddle trades since they have similar profit targets, although holding periods can be longer.   Compare a 75% win rate with ~5% average gain to our historical straddle results found here and these DD returns are very good.
     
  • One of the common things heard from many members over the years is that the shorter duration straddle trades are difficult to manage when they can't be watching the market all the time.   DD's don't fall into this category as they can be open for longer periods of time, you can easily have GTC orders to close at profit targets and you don't have to worry about avoiding larger losses when RV suddenly spikes downward - so DDs are very good trades for people who can't be watching the market all the time.
     
  • Regarding the "playing not to lose" comment.   Managing downside risk as much as possible is one of my primary goals with SO trades, as larger percentage losses can have a large negative impact on portfolio performance.   I look at DDs simply like this - I can have roughly 75% of trades be profitable (some smaller gains, but quite a few over 10% and some getting to 20%), but have almost all losses limited to below 10% (most losers below 5%) and that math works out very well over the longer term.

Currently, we have 4 DDs open as official trades and this will be the most you are likely to see at any given time - thereby leaving plenty of slots for other trade types. Members have different risk tolerances so not every trade type we use is a good match for all members.   But for people who can't be monitoring the market all the time and for some trades where you'd like a higher capital allocation because of the lower downside risk,  DDs can be a good match this category.

As one of our members mentioned:

"Regarding the "playing not to lose" comment.   Managing downside risk as much as possible is one of my primary goals with SO trades, as larger percentage losses can have a large negative impact on portfolio performance.   I look at DDs simply like this - I can have roughly 75% of trades be profitable (some smaller gains, but quite a few over 10% and some getting to 20%), but have almost all losses limited to below 10% (most losers below 5%) and that math works out very well over the longer term.

Many option forums or traders will report a win percentage, total percentage over a few years.  However, I will say that over long periods of time, the unlikely occurrence of a higher risk/higher return strategy  of will greatly reduce a portfolio.  The cost of the extra options easily is worth the alleviation of risk.  If you look at their historical performance.  This was once of there better performing trades over time.  

 

So thank you Yowster.  I also like that some trades are large enough stocks that you can exceed the recommended allocation without significantly effecting the float with a larger trade, as a straddle/strangle under a dollar needs is less desirable for me.  I completely respect this strategy is for a 100k portfolio.  I may be trading occasionally more, but that's a different topic that has been discussed I believe."  


My 2 cents:

To put things in perspective, we closed 9 DDs so far with average return of 5.1% and average holding period of 9 days. Only 2 losers, both 2-3%, and none of the trades was down more than 5% at any given time. Even when the stock doesn't move, the losses are minimal.

If someone believes that 5% is not a good return for options trades, I suggest reading Is 5% A Good Return For Options Trades? Yes, some options gurus will tell you that you should aim for at least 100% gain in each option trade, otherwise it is not worth the risk. What they don't tell you is the risk you will be taking. So I would say that on risk adjusted basis, those results almost too good to be true. They are also pretty easy to open, and because the holding periods are longer than straddles, members have more time to enter. Closing can be done with GTC order, and many times members get better results - just check the previous DD discussion topics. Commissions impact is negligible - in today's environment, many brokers have zero commissions, and even for people who pay 0.30-0.50 per contract (which is high by the current standards), the commissions impact is less than 0.5% per trade.

As for the statement "playing not to lose" - guilty as charged. Limiting losses is our main goal at SteadyOptions. And if you look at our track record, in the last 12 years we were able to produce triple digit gains while keeping the drawdowns very small.

I can only salute @Yowster for constantly coming with new variations of well known strategies in every market environment.

Another consideration is trade allocation.

Lets say you are willing to risk 2% of the account per trade.

If you know that the maximum risk is not likely to be more than 10-15%, you can easily allocate 10-12% per trade. But if your risk is 100%, your allocation should not exceed 2% per trade. So your overall performance will not necessarily be better with high risk high reward trades, but with much higher risk.

So yes, we are playing not to lose. Keeping your losers small is one of the key elements in trading.


Subscribe to SteadyOptions now and experience the full power of options trading at your fingertips. Click the button below to get started!

Join SteadyOptions Now!
 

What Is SteadyOptions?

12 Years CAGR of 122.7%

Full Trading Plan

Complete Portfolio Approach

Real-time trade sharing: entry, exit, and adjustments

Diversified Options Strategies

Exclusive Community Forum

Steady And Consistent Gains

High Quality Education

Risk Management, Portfolio Size

Performance based on real fills

Subscribe to SteadyOptions now and experience the full power of options trading!
Subscribe

Non-directional Options Strategies

10-15 trade Ideas Per Month

Targets 5-7% Monthly Net Return

Visit our Education Center

Recent Articles

Articles

  • SPX Options vs. SPY Options: Which Should I Trade?

    Trading options on the S&P 500 is a popular way to make money on the index. There are several ways traders use this index, but two of the most popular are to trade options on SPX or SPY. One key difference between the two is that SPX options are based on the index, while SPY options are based on an exchange-traded fund (ETF) that tracks the index.

    By Mark Wolfinger,

    • 0 comments
    • 1,041 views
  • Yes, We Are Playing Not to Lose!

    There are many trading quotes from different traders/investors, but this one is one of my favorites: “In trading/investing it's not about how much you make, but how much you don't lose" - Bernard Baruch. At SteadyOptions, this has been one of our major goals in the last 12 years.

    By Kim,

    • 0 comments
    • 1,423 views
  • The Impact of Implied Volatility (IV) on Popular Options Trades

    You’ll often read that a given option trade is either vega positive (meaning that IV rising will help it and IV falling will hurt it) or vega negative (meaning IV falling will help and IV rising will hurt).   However, in fact many popular options spreads can be either vega positive or vega negative depending where where the stock price is relative to the spread strikes.  

    By Yowster,

    • 0 comments
    • 1,706 views
  • Please Follow Me Inside The Insiders

    The greatest joy in investing in options is when you are right on direction. It’s really hard to beat any return that is based on a correct options bet on the direction of a stock, which is why we spend much of our time poring over charts, historical analysis, Elliot waves, RSI and what not.

    By TrustyJules,

    • 0 comments
    • 913 views
  • Trading Earnings With Ratio Spread

    A 1x2 ratio spread with call options is created by selling one lower-strike call and buying two higher-strike calls. This strategy can be established for either a net credit or for a net debit, depending on the time to expiration, the percentage distance between the strike prices and the level of volatility.

    By TrustyJules,

    • 0 comments
    • 1,930 views
  • SteadyOptions 2023 - Year In Review

    2023 marks our 12th year as a public trading service. We closed 192 winners out of 282 trades (68.1% winning ratio). Our model portfolio produced 112.2% compounded gain on the whole account based on 10% allocation per trade. We had only one losing month and one essentially breakeven in 2023. 

    By Kim,

    • 0 comments
    • 6,441 views
  • Call And Put Backspreads Options Strategies

    A backspread is very bullish or very bearish strategy used to trade direction; ie a trader is betting that a stock will move quickly in one direction. Call Backspreads are used for trading up moves; put backspreads for down moves.

    By Chris Young,

    • 0 comments
    • 9,998 views
  • Long Put Option Strategy

    A long put option strategy is the purchase of a put option in the expectation of the underlying stock falling. It is Delta negative, Vega positive and Theta negative strategy. A long put is a single-leg, risk-defined, bearish options strategy. Buying a put option is a levered alternative to selling shares of stock short.

    By Chris Young,

    • 0 comments
    • 11,625 views
  • Long Call Option Strategy

    A long call option strategy is the purchase of a call option in the expectation of the underlying stock rising. It is Delta positive, Vega positive and Theta negative strategy. A long call is a single-leg, risk-defined, bullish options strategy. Buying a call option is a levered alternative to buying shares of stock.

    By Chris Young,

    • 0 comments
    • 12,059 views
  • What Is Delta Hedging?

    Delta hedging is an investing strategy that combines the purchase or sale of an option as well as an offsetting transaction in the underlying asset to reduce the risk of a directional move in the price of the option. When a position is delta-neutral, it will not rise or fall in value when the value of the underlying asset stays within certain bounds. 

    By Kim,

    • 0 comments
    • 10,103 views

  Report Article

We want to hear from you!


There are no comments to display.



Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account. It's easy and free!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

Options Trading Blogs