PureVolatility's Tradier/Tradehawk Bundle Package

[SBatch 1,111]

We believe this to be the absolute best offer available in the marketplace for the active trader when taking into consideration commissions, execution, platform and customer service.  This is the only subscription available at this time from Tradier that allows for a free platform and commission free trades. The current TradeHawk offer is $159 per month for unlimited commission free trades (https://mytradehawk.com/pricing/).  Here are the details of the PureVolatility offer:

 

Unlimited stock and option trading:

0-3,000 contracts per month = $119 TradeHawk Fee

3,000+ contracts per month = $0 Tradehawk Fee

 

THOSE CURRENTLY SUBSCRIBED TO THE SO/TH PLAN FOR $109 CAN CONVERT TO THIS PLAN FOR $109 WHEN UNDER 3,000 CONTRACTS VIA TRADIER’s GRANDFATHER OFFER.

 

For additional accounts, Tradier will give subscribers $0 commission trading for $45/month.  This fee will be refunded with 2,000 contracts traded.  This can be in the account independently or 5,000 contracts across the two separate accounts.

 

$10,000 minimum balance required.

 

There is no separate SO/CA/Tradier fee.

 

Subscription excludes other fees such as options exercise and assignments. Tradier Brokerage passes along all exchange and regulatory fees (approximately .09 per contract).

 

If you are unfamiliar with TradeHawk, best to set up a free Paper-Trading account (no Tradier account required at this step) and schedule a platform tour with Lex.  PLEASE USE PROMO CODE TLT ELEPHANT:

 

https://mytradehawk.com/

 

Considering the TLT Elephant will do between 1,000 and 1,500 contracts per month alone on a $10,000 account, not including any other trades being made, hitting the 3,000 contract minimum will not be difficult.  Also, consider how many SO calendar trades are avoided because they are low cost and too commission intensive.  No longer an issue. 

 

There will be no charge for TradeHawk in February of 2019 to allow for subscribers to complete the account opening and funding process without being penalized.  Those that already have a subscription with Tradier, but would like to switch to this offer simply need to email Tradier at service@tradierbrokerage.com (the February fee waiver will not apply to existing Tradier client's as there is no account setup to be done).

 

In order to take advantage of the offer one must hold an active PureVolatility subscription (either individually or through the SO Bundle) and the following link must be used along with the subscription/promo code TLT Elephant:

 

https://brokerage.tradier.com/signup/getting-started?platform=78

 

BILLING PROCESS:

In the beginning of the month Tradier will bill the account $119.  In the beginning of the following month the account will be reviewed to determine if the 3,000 contract threshold was met.  If so, the account will be credited the $119.  For those interested in having their contract totals tabulated occasionally throughout the month, Tradier will provide this service complimentary to CA subscribers.  Simply email service@tradierbrokerage.com with your request.

 

[SBatch 1,111]

For those looking to learn more about TradeHawk (the trading platform), training videos can be found here:

https://mytradehawk.com/videos/

 

For those looking to learn more about Tradier (the Introducing Broker), details can be found here:

https://tradier.com/

 

For those looking to learn more about Apex (the Clearing Agent & Custodian), details can be found here:

https://www.apexclearing.com/

 

For those looking for a detailed background and discussion on Tradier and TradeHawk, it can be found here:

https://steadyoptions.com/forums/forum/topic/3318-tradier-brokerage-special-offer/?tab=comments#comment-62192

 

[SBatch 1,111]

Looks like Tradier has added a mobile specific platform.  This will not be part of the Creating Alpha bundle but could be an add-on for those that require a robust mobile app (however I have no personal experience with it):

https://brokerage.tradier.com/platforms/rho

[SBatch 1,111]

Interesting article potentially explaining why we are seeing superior fills at brokers who cater to the retail investor (Tradier, Robinhood and TastyWorks) as opposed to those that cater to the institutional investor (IB, TOS).  It’s basically stating that the market makers prefer retail flow so they are willing to pay more for it which will in turn result in better fills for those of us using Tradier, RH and TW.

https://www.theblockcrypto.com/2019/01/25/robinhood-has-slashed-the-percentage-of-orders-it-sends-to-high-speed-trading-firm-citadel-securities/

[ex3y7s 106]

45 minutes ago, SBatch said:

Interesting article potentially explaining why we are seeing superior fills at brokers who cater to the retail investor (Tradier, Robinhood and TastyWorks) as opposed to those that cater to the institutional investor (IB, TOS).  It’s basically stating that the market makers prefer retail flow so they are willing to pay more for it which will in turn result in better fills for those of us using Tradier, RH and TW.

https://www.theblockcrypto.com/2019/01/25/robinhood-has-slashed-the-percentage-of-orders-it-sends-to-high-speed-trading-firm-citadel-securities/

Interesting--I haven't been dissatisfied with the fills on Tradier but my experience has actually been the opposite: fills on IB are usually slightly better. It certainly doesn't offset their commissions, though!

[Seth H 32]

Same here. Can't say Tradier has better fills than my ETrade. It is actually the opposite. ETrade used to fill much faster and at much better prices. But of course commission would eat that away. So, I guess these brokerage choices are a zero sum game.

[g5harlan 146]

Difficult to actually compare apples to apples with brokers other than commissions. The "fills" between brokers would need to be done at the same time in order to really know who filled at the best prices and how long did it take. Certainly higher commissions are going to eat into your return, but poorer fill rates and associated pricing could also have the same negative effect. I really like the idea of  the no commissions brokers I see talked about here, but then there too often other issues that seem arise. I realize that if you have a higher trading volume you certainly can see some steep discounts at a number of these brokers. It doesn't get any cheaper than free, but can I get it filled?! 

This certainly can be a frustrating subject. Changing brokers is no small thing. One small item I have run into is being pushed into day trader status. Has anyone else experienced that here?

[Kim 4,100]

Based on feedback from our members over years, IB used to have superior fills compared to brokers like TOS, eTrade, Fidelity, Schwab etc.

However, when those newer brokers (Tradier and tastyworks) started to operate, the fills reported by members are comparable to IB. I think the main reason is that unlike brokers like Fidelity or Schwab, Tradier and tastytrade are very options friendly.

Overall, I don't think it's a zero sum game. With IB, you would pay around 20-25% of your account value per year. And IB is still considered one of the cheapest. If you can reduce it to just few hundred dollars with Tradier, that's huge. I wish I could switch - I wouldn't think twice.

[SBatch 1,111]

There simply will be no difference in fills across all brokerages on the underlying that Creating Alpha trades.  This is not debatable, it is simple supply and demand, the liquidity is there.  If someone has an order sitting for a CA fill even though it just filled at the other brokerage one simply needs to cancal the existing order and resubmit and it will almost always fill.

[Noah Katz 74]

3 hours ago, SBatch said:

If someone has an order sitting for a CA fill even though it just filled at the other brokerage one simply needs to cancal the existing order and resubmit and it will almost always fill.

 

Could to know, as this has happened to me many times.

 

But it seems nonsensical; why would the brokerages forego the income from filling it.?

[SBatch 1,111]

32 minutes ago, Noah Katz said:

 

Could to know, as this has happened to me many times.

 

But it seems nonsensical; why would the brokerages forego the income from filling it.?

Not the broker but the market maker and they wouldn’t.  However, with so many exchanges they may be working one while your order was routed to another and sits unfilled.  Canceling and resubmitting will restart the smart routing engine which will now recognize the order at the other exchange.

[Noah Katz 74]

17 minutes ago, SBatch said:

However, with so many exchanges they may be working one while your order was routed to another and sits unfilled.

 

So why doesn't that "another" fill the order?

 

 

Edited January 27 by Noah Katz

[SBatch 1,111]

2 minutes ago, Noah Katz said:

 

So why doesn't that "another" fill the order?

 

 

The market maker may not be interested in filling in that venue as the rebate for order flow or volume may be inferior.

[Noah Katz 74]

1 minute ago, SBatch said:

The market maker may not be interested in filling in that venue as the rebate for order flow or volume may be inferior.

 

Ah, so canceling and re-submitting orders is a way of shopping different brokers.

 

That's very useful to know, thanks.

[Kim 4,100]

And this is not unique with Tradier. I experienced it with IB many times. In fact, sometimes the offer might sit there for a while, and lowering it by 1-2 cents might get you a fill. Sometimes it helps to "play" with it few times.

[ex3y7s 106]

That's really great to know, and makes me more excited for the TradeHawk announcement. I've been submitting orders programmatically using Tradier's API and then managing them in their web UI. The submission works well but their web dashboard makes order management a bit cumbersome, so it would be great to have a real trading platform to manage the orders.

 

Thanks guys.

[Noah Katz 74]

12 minutes ago, Kim said:

In fact, sometimes the offer might sit there for a while, and lowering it by 1-2 cents might get you a fill. Sometimes it helps to "play" with it few times.

 

Can changing the price cause it to go to a different broker, or does the order have to be cancelled and re-submitted?

[SBatch 1,111]

9 minutes ago, Noah Katz said:

 

Can changing the price cause it to go to a different broker, or does the order have to be cancelled and re-submitted?

It can at IB but not other brokers. Best to simply cancel and resubmit.

[lrfsdad 7]

On 1/26/2019 at 4:19 PM, SBatch said:

Looks like Tradier has added a mobile specific platform.  This will not be part of the Creating Alpha bundle but could be an add-on for those that require a robust mobile app (however I have no personal experience with it):

https://brokerage.tradier.com/platforms/rho

I've emailed Tradier several times about a mobile app, and they always say there is no mobile app, but there web version is mobile friendly.  Yesterday I noticed the app you mentioned, but after emailing them, it is currently only available on apple devices, android coming soon...

my email from jellifn:

If you have an iPhone, iPad or iPod device, then Yes you will be able to use our app. You can read more about it here: https://www.jellifin.com/start-trading

 

Very soon we will be rolling out our app for Android and Web trading.

 

Thanks,

Andre

[kannaiah 13]

@SBatch for a minute I thought AUS and CAN residents could open accounts, they are green in the table. I'm UK resident so it will be hard no. The interesting thing is Germany is green in the list, if they are able to open EU accounts then it should be possible. Maybe not many clients in EU! and Germany is special case.

[SBatch 1,111]

1 minute ago, kannaiah said:

@SBatch for a minute I thought AUS and CAN residents could open accounts, they are green in the table. I'm UK resident so it will be hard no. The interesting thing is Germany is green in the list, if they are able to open EU accounts then it should be possible. Maybe not many clients in EU! and Germany is special case.

It could be related to Brexit, not really sure.  The issue with Canada and Australia is the regulators do not allow rebate for order flow which makes Tradier's business model obsolete.  Great example of how over-regulating can end up significantly hurting the consumer.

[baylisstic 0]

On 1/26/2019 at 2:19 PM, SBatch said:

Looks like Tradier has added a mobile specific platform.  This will not be part of the Creating Alpha bundle but could be an add-on for those that require a robust mobile app (however I have no personal experience with it):

https://brokerage.tradier.com/platforms/rho

Looks like it's only for iPhone at the moment. (I have Android.) 

[kannaiah 13]

On 1/26/2019 at 2:16 PM, SBatch said:

Considering the TLT Elephant will do between 1,000 and 1,500 contracts per month alone on a $10,000 account, not including any other trades being made

@SBatch on IB commissions would be around $750 (if I use 0.75c per contract?)

I'm thinking of subscribing for CA but looks like CA strategies are commission intensive.

Would you be able to guesstimate commissions per month on the basis of 1000 contracts on TW? UK residents can open TW account.

I hope for TW package in future 😞

[SBatch 1,111]

14 minutes ago, kannaiah said:

@SBatch on IB commissions would be around $750 (if I use 0.75c per contract?)

I'm thinking of subscribing for CA but looks like CA strategies are commission intensive.

Would you be able to guesstimate commissions per month on the basis of 1000 contracts on TW? UK residents can open TW account.

I hope for TW package in future 😞

TastyWorks is a little bit more expensive but still very reasonable and the TLT Elephant can certainly be traded there.  I would absolutely not recommend trading the Elephant with IB, it will likely not be profitable at that commission rate.

[lrfsdad 7]

If trades are placed directly thru tradier website as they don't have a mobile platform, will I still qualify?

[Seth H 32]

Anyone has any rough idea how many contracts are traded on SO alerts on average per month?

[Seth H 32]

And, does 3000 contract include both opening and closing trades, for example, if I buy 10 contracts of TLT calls and then sell all 10 contracts next day, do they count this as 10 contracts or 20 contracts toward fulfilling 3000?

[SBatch 1,111]

7 minutes ago, Seth H said:

And, does 3000 contract include both opening and closing trades, for example, if I buy 10 contracts of TLT calls and then sell all 10 contracts next day, do they count this as 10 contracts or 20 contracts toward fulfilling 3000?

20.

[Noah Katz 74]

On 1/26/2019 at 6:16 AM, SBatch said:

Subscription excludes other fees such as options exercise and assignments. Tradier Brokerage passes along all exchange and regulatory fees (approximately .09 per contract).

In order to take advantage of the offer one must hold an active Creating Alpha subscription and the following link must be used along with the subscription/promo code TLT Elephant:

https://brokerage.tradier.com/signup/getting-started?platform=78

 

I've never seen a charge on my statements or account activity page; is it embedded in the position cost so that the prices we see are net?

 

Also, do existing Tradier/Tradehawk subscribers need to do anything to get  switched to this free?

 

Thanks, and THANKS for setting this up.

 

 

Edited January 29 by Noah Katz

[ex3y7s 106]

5 minutes ago, Noah Katz said:

I've never seen a charge on my statements or account activity page; is it embedded in the position cost so that the prices we see are net?

Check under "E-documents" on the Tradier dasbhoard: it has daily PDF reports from Apex with the fees. They become available the next day after trades are made.

[SBatch 1,111]

2 hours ago, Noah Katz said:

 

I've never seen a charge on my statements or account activity page; is it embedded in the position cost so that the prices we see are net?

 

Also, do existing Tradier/Tradehawk subscribers need to do anything to get  switched to this free?

 

Thanks, and THANKS for setting this up.

 

 

You can create an account with Apex (https://public-apps.apexclearing.com/session/#/login), where you will be able to view all activity including any fees (transaction and subscription).  You must email Tradier to take advantage of the offer.  Simply tell them you wish to change your subscription to the TLT Elephant.

[ales19 42]

can accounts with Tastyworks be transferred given they both use Apex?

 

(assuming we meet the residential criteria of course)

Edited January 29 by ales19

[siddharth 19]

Sorry for the stupid question, but how is this better than the SO $40 per month unlimited trades offer. Is it because the trade hawk platform is much better than using the tradier website to place the trades ? Do you think we can get to 3000 trades per month to get the $0 rate if we just follow the CA trades. 

 

[ironroni 0]

SBatch, could you please post again the table of which countries are qualifying for a Tradier account opening. I cannot find it.

Thanks!

[SBatch 1,111]

2 hours ago, ironroni said:

SBatch, could you please post again the table of which countries are qualifying for a Tradier account opening. I cannot find it.

Thanks!

I had to take it down for compliance purposes, Tradier is working on a replacement listing that I will post.

[SBatch 1,111]

6 hours ago, ales19 said:

can accounts with Tastyworks be transferred given they both use Apex?

 

(assuming we meet the residential criteria of course)

Yes.

[SBatch 1,111]

4 hours ago, siddharth310584 said:

Sorry for the stupid question, but how is this better than the SO $40 per month unlimited trades offer. Is it because the trade hawk platform is much better than using the tradier website to place the trades ? Do you think we can get to 3000 trades per month to get the $0 rate if we just follow the CA trades. 

 

Yes, because of the platform.  CA will not get to 3,000 contracts on its own for a $10,000 TLT Elephant portfolio but likely would at $30,000 TLT Elephant portfolio.

[anand331 98]

@SBatch, the current pricing from Tradier/TradeHawk is $40+$59 per month. So the new offer is not better than the current one. Am I missing anything?

[NJ_KenRob 90]

Your missing if you trade 3000 contracts a month there are no fees.

[SBatch 1,111]

Just now, anand331 said:

@SBatch, the current pricing from Tradier/TradeHawk is $40+$59 per month. So the new offer is not better than the current one. Am I missing anything?

Yes, the current offer cannot eliminate the monthly fees through option volume whereas the new offer can.  In addition, those currently subscribed to the SO/TH subscription can transfer to this subscription and be grandfathered in at $109 for the new plan.

[anand331 98]

1 minute ago, SBatch said:

Yes, the current offer cannot eliminate the monthly fees through option volume whereas the new offer can.  In addition, those currently subscribed to the SO/TH subscription can transfer to this subscription and be grandfathered in at $109 for the new plan.

Thanks @SBatch. Sorry if it has already been answered but do you anticipate SO+CA trades to total more than 3000 per month?

[SBatch 1,111]

2 minutes ago, anand331 said:

Thanks @SBatch. Sorry if it has already been answered but do you anticipate SO+CA trades to total more than 3000 per month?

I expect a $10,000 TLT portfolio to do over 1,000 contracts per month not sure about SO.  Obviously if one is trading more capital, more contracts will be traded exponentially.

[anand331 98]

@Kim, @Yowster or anyone on the forum has done any analysis on the contract volume for SO trades? From my crude calculations, the January contract volume shows well over 1000 contracts (I assume the contracts are per leg not per spread).

[SBatch 1,111]

1 minute ago, anand331 said:

@Kim, @Yowster or anyone on the forum has done any analysis on the contract volume for SO trades? From my crude calculations, the January contract volume shows well over 1000 contracts (I assume the contracts are per leg not per spread).

Contracts per leg.  If one were to take a few of the unofficial trades (especially the low priced calendars), getting over 3,000 would be quite attainable.

[Yowster 2,899]

10 minutes ago, anand331 said:

@Kim, @Yowster or anyone on the forum has done any analysis on the contract volume for SO trades? From my crude calculations, the January contract volume shows well over 1000 contracts (I assume the contracts are per leg not per spread).

Also, the number of contracts in official trades is based on 10K portfolio allocation size - and many member trade in larger allocations than that, so they trade many more contracts.

[anand331 98]

@SBatch, will the monthly subscriptions to CA (not annual) be grandfathered and allow subsequent conversion to annual at grandfathered rates? I want to get a better handle on my volumes for a few months and then decide to convert to annual.

[SBatch 1,111]

28 minutes ago, anand331 said:

@SBatch, will the monthly subscriptions to CA (not annual) be grandfathered and allow subsequent conversion to annual at grandfathered rates? I want to get a better handle on my volumes for a few months and then decide to convert to annual.

@Kim can respond to this.  That being said, if you're currently in the $109 plan, you're talking about risking $10 to potentially make $109.  This is the type of dynamic we are constantly looking for in our trading!

[Rabbit10 1]

Reminds me of a similar offer via Quantcha, (also via Tradier) but the kicker here is that beyond 3,000 contracts it is free which is very appealing. I am not sure how the tools compare so would be grateful is someone could tell me. From what I can see Quantcha is online only (no downloadable app).  I'm moving to France shortly, so I might pitch a question to Tradier about this (I know they serve Italy (I found that out via Quantcha's Founder on Reddit) and Germany, but not sure for France). UK is sadly a definite no no (something desperately needs to be done about that).

Regardless, thanks to SBatch, Kim and team for your ongoing efforts to make our subscriptions even better value. 

[SBatch 1,111]

57 minutes ago, Yowster said:

Also, the number of contracts in official trades is based on 10K portfolio allocation size - and many member trade in larger allocations than that, so they trade many more contracts.

This and the resurgence of the RICs also has contract levels increasing.

[SBatch 1,111]

8 minutes ago, Rabbit10 said:

Reminds me of a similar offer via Quantcha, (also via Tradier) but the kicker here is that beyond 3,000 contracts it is free which is very appealing. I am not sure how the tools compare so would be grateful is someone could tell me. From what I can see Quantcha is online only (no downloadable app).  I'm moving to France shortly, so I might pitch a question to Tradier about this (I know they serve Italy (I found that out via Quantcha's Founder on Reddit) and Germany, but not sure for France). UK is sadly a definite no no (something desperately needs to be done about that).

Regardless, thanks to SBatch, Kim and team for your ongoing efforts to make our subscriptions even better value. 

France is good to go with Tradier.  Regarding TradeHawk, if you are unfamiliar best to set up a free Paper-Trading account (no Tradier account required at this step) and schedule a platform walk through with Lex:

https://mytradehawk.com/