Filling Trades

[mrw02536 18]

I find that typically after Kin comes out with an official trade the entry price moves up almost immediately. I wonder if this is because:

1. coincidence

2.Kin's trades are really good and timely

3. There are enough members of steadyoptions that we influence the price

4.Somehow traders outside of steadyoptions are getting these trades.

any thoughts?

[daniel500 52]

Since SO has members with substantial numbers, i assume no.3 might be the factor that influence the price. Like @Kim said, if He couldn't control others account.

Actually, on latest CRM Trade, i got filled before Kim's alert at exact same price but still not fully filled as i intended. I got partial filled on IB and got fully filled on TW based on each account size. In the early days when i just joined SO, i also felt some frustration when see how quick the price got increased after Kim's alert and still to this day i missed a lot of Kim's alert or almost of it .

But with much knowledge or strategies that Kim and other mentors have been provided, i think there will be many opportunity to implement it on other tickers and yet we must be proactive to search and research the candidates. My portfolios are based on SO rationale but, yes, it exactly very different with SO Open Trades. Some months, mine could be worse and could be much better than SO performance.

Cheers.

[greenspan76 332]

8 hours ago, mrw02536 said:

I find that typically after Kin comes out with an official trade the entry price moves up almost immediately. I wonder if this is because:

1. coincidence

2.Kin's trades are really good and timely

3. There are enough members of steadyoptions that we influence the price

4.Somehow traders outside of steadyoptions are getting these trades.

any thoughts?

I think it is more than one factor. I've noticed quite a few times when there will be a short burst of just a few seconds where tons of bids/asks just below/above the recent trading range are filled, then the price reverts to the trading range and those prices don't fill again. If you've got a bid/ask sitting there during that time, your trade is executed. If not, you just missed the window for that price. So that's one factor and I think it can be classified as Kim's trades being good and timely. Members who are proactive can do the same thing, but I would guess a lot of members either don't have time to do their own research or don't have the confidence to place the trades without "approval" or "validation" from someone.

 

Another factor is that some members are just going to pay whatever they have to in order to get in the trade, regardless of whether the price is reasonable. It seems to me that there are more members like this now than when I joined about 2 1/2 years ago, but that could just be observational bias on my part. In any case, there could be an occasional exception on lower liquidity options, but I don't think it is the number of members or the dollar amounts members are trading that is the problem. I think it is lack of patience and a willingness to accept lower returns that drives members to increase prices.

Edited May 12, 2018 by greenspan76

[Kim 7,943]

My comments:

Many times I simply take advantage of the temporary dip in the price and get filled at the bottom of the trading range. This is what happened to the recent CRM trade. As you can see from the chart posted on the discussion topic, the recent range was 0.50-0.64. I simply placed a limit order at 0.50 and got filled. The discussion topic clearly mentioned the price target for the calendar, so members could place the same order in advance.

SO members can impact prices temporary if they continue raising their bids. But if the "real" prices are lower, the price will come down after all bids have been filled. And this is true for less liquid stocks only. Stock like TLT, MSFT, VXX, SPX, FB, IBM etc. are obviously not impacted.  

Being proactive, doing your research, looking at some of the unofficial candidates is the best way to use SO service. Yes, you will need to have some level of confidence and experience to do it - this is why we recommend to stick around and not give up after few weeks or months. This is a process that takes time. Members who stick around and learn the strategies are greatly rewarded. Those who decide to give up after short period of time - well, I guess it's their loss. 

I don't know about traders outside of steadyoptions. Sharing our trades with people who dodn't have active subscription is a serious violation of our terms and conditions. We already banned few members for doing it (yes we have ways to find out), so those who want to continue being members, I strongly recommend not doing it.

[gujboy75 3]

Where can this discussion topic be found in advance?  Unofficial trade ideas / Earnings or non-earnings ideas?

Kim, I am also getting a notification (as these trades are for a $10K account) that buying/selling the same equity in the same day is counting towards day trading.  How can we avoid this or what are you doing?  TD Ameritrade suggests a balance over $25K to not be considered for this.  I've used up 2 of the 5 days, and reading their warning it seems if I continue for the rest in a row they will not allow me to close my position. 

Their verbage:

 

If you are flagged as a pattern day trader, you'll be subject to restrictions, including a minimum equity of $25,000 at the start of any day in which day trading occurs. Pattern day-trader accounts that fall below the $25,000 minimum equity requirement for day trading will be restricted to closing transactions only for 90 days, or until the equity is brought up to $25,000.

[Kim 7,943]

Under Earnings Trades Discussions, Non-Earnings Trades Discussions as I mentioned to you in PM. Unofficial Trade Ideas are mostly unofficial ideas posted by other members.

You need to open and close 3 trades to be flagged. CRM was only one leg opened and closed the same day, and it is pretty rare for us to do it.

All new members:

Please make sure to read the Welcome to SteadyOptions post and Frequently Asked Questions. it will be time well spent.

[Kim 7,943]

11 hours ago, greenspan76 said:

I think it is more than one factor. I've noticed quite a few times when there will be a short burst of just a few seconds where tons of bids/asks just below/above the recent trading range are filled, then the price reverts to the trading range and those prices don't fill again. If you've got a bid/ask sitting there during that time, your trade is executed. If not, you just missed the window for that price. So that's one factor and I think it can be classified as Kim's trades being good and timely. Members who are proactive can do the same thing, but I would guess a lot of members either don't have time to do their own research or don't have the confidence to place the trades without "approval" or "validation" from someone.

At the same time, many times prices do retreat and provide a better entry point. Recent examples include TLT, NTES, FB and more. 

[Topcat 7]

on getting filled:  I wonder if some brokerages or software front ends are better, quicker than others? 

Like a lot of you, I have several brokerage accounts and sometimes i have placed the same order at different brokerages within a minute or two only to have one order filled within minutes  and the other hours later or not at all. Not sure this has anything to do with the brokerage and I suspect  it has more to do with volume and orders coming it. Still, does anyone have any evidence on one being better than another?

Edited May 12, 2018 by Topcat

[drcruz 116]

I'm also new here and I'm unsure if my thinking is correct, but one thing that's nice about the official trades are that Kim posts the target RV. If the price of the stock moves higher, I've used the target RV % as a multiple of current stock price and have gotten my order filled that way by buying the higher strike price. 

 

[greenspan76 332]

On 5/12/2018 at 3:19 PM, Topcat said:

on getting filled:  I wonder if some brokerages or software front ends are better, quicker than others? 

Like a lot of you, I have several brokerage accounts and sometimes i have placed the same order at different brokerages within a minute or two only to have one order filled within minutes  and the other hours later or not at all. Not sure this has anything to do with the brokerage and I suspect  it has more to do with volume and orders coming it. Still, does anyone have any evidence on one being better than another?

IB's software fills combo / multi-leg orders across different exchanges, which some brokers don't do (and/or don't do well), but I haven't used another brokerage for option trades in a long time and can't give observations on that. However, based on my observations and a few comments other have made on the forums here, I believe IRA trades do not fill the same as cash account trades, at least at IB. I have both cash and IRA accounts with IB and typically will set up orders on both accounts before submitting at the same time. Over and over again, my cash account trades will fill and my IRA trades will not. At first, I thought it was the ~1 second delay between clicking submit on one order and clicking submit on the other order, but after experimenting on different ways to submit the orders, I finally accepted that I frequently have to pay an extra $0.01 - $0.02 in my IRA for the same trade. I've even submitted the cash trade first, gotten insta-filled, then the IRA trade and no fill, followed by another cash trade that's insta-filled with the IRA order still sitting there unfilled. I have no idea why this is, but I'm pretty convinced its not just random bad luck.

Edited May 14, 2018 by greenspan76

[sandrajames 0]

On 5/12/2018 at 10:04 AM, greenspan76 said:

I think it is more than one factor. I've noticed quite a few times when there will be a short burst of just a few seconds where tons of bids/asks just below/above the recent trading range are filled, then the price reverts to the trading range and those prices don't fill again. If you've got a bid/ask sitting there during that time, your online trading is executed. If not, you just missed the window for that price. So that's one factor and I think it can be classified as Kim's trades being good and timely. Members who are proactive can do the same thing, but I would guess a lot of members either don't have time to do their own research or don't have the confidence to place the trades without "approval" or "validation" from someone.

 

Another factor is that some members are just going to pay whatever they have to in order to get in the trade, regardless of whether the price is reasonable. It seems to me that there are more members like this now than when I joined about 2 1/2 years ago, but that could just be observational bias on my part. In any case, there could be an occasional exception on lower liquidity options, but I don't think it is the number of members or the dollar amounts members are trading that is the problem. I think it is lack of patience and a willingness to accept lower returns that drives members to increase prices.

1

These points are a good inclusion. Especially the point that talks about members being able to pay whatever they have to in order to get in the trade, regardless of the price being reasonable. Sometimes you just never know if you have hit jackpot or not. All you have to do is take a swing. If the ball enters the puck then you win big; if not, you take another swing. The trading game is just such that you need to think about liquidity as well as your investing horizon.