Unofficial trade structure

[Kim 7,488]

Unofficial trade structure poll

[RapperT 335]

Does option 3 mean a new topic for each individual unofficial  trade or a new thread for each idea?

ie.short strangle thread, vxx diagonal thread etc etc

[Kim 7,488]

New topic for each trade idea (one topic per symbol, running from cycle to cycle).

[SBatch 2,269]

@Kim I understand that the concept of going by majority is typically best.  However, in this instance it may be insightful to take a more granular look.  If those voting against the new topic for each trade idea are those that are also contributing the majority of the trade ideas, I believe this merits discussion.  The notion here is that those that are already spending their time contributing most, may not also wish to spend the additional time to create a new thread for each of their trade ideas. This is just something to keep in mind as the more laborious it becomes the less some may contribute.

Edited August 23, 2017 by SBatch

[Rogers 263]

1 minute ago, SBatch said:

@Kim I understand that the concept of going by majority is typically best.  However, in this instance it may be insightful to take a more granular look.  If those voting against the new topic for each trade idea are those that are also contributing the majority of the trade ideas, I believe this merits discussion.  The notion here is that those that are already spending their time contributing most, may not also wish to spend the additional time to create a new thread for each of their trade ideas. This is just something to keep in mind as the more laborious it becomes the less some may contribute.

I agree with this.. 

[Kim 7,488]

@SBatchI completely agree.

 

So here are few questions/comments:

1. Is creating a new topic for each trade idea really much more time consuming than replying to an existing topic?

2. How spiting to 2 topics (trades and discussions) would help? I don't think members would remember to make a clear separation, and also how would it work? If you plan to enter xxx to will post it under discussions, and then the actual fills under trades topic? Sounds a bit artificial.

 

Personally I voted to option #4 (new topic each month). I think it will resolve the issue of topic becoming a monster, and can be a good compromise. Also members will have to follow only once a month which is also a good thing.

 

I would like to hear more from members who post the most @Yowster @RapperT @Rogers @Djtux etc.

[clems 27]

I voted for Option 4 for this reason as well.  These are unofficial.  Trying to structure it too much means it likely just won't be used as much IMO.  I have had no problems following things in one big thread, but the need for archive seems required.  I also like the open forumness of the thread vs having conversations split up.

[anand331 137]

Is prefixing every discussion comment with [TOL 44 Straddle plus 43/45 short strangle] or something similar any less time consuming than one time splitting of topic? While fully respecting the contributors, at least I have made several mistakes in not being able to properly follow the maze of discussions. We may see some downtick in posted ideas initially, but eventually everyone will realize that splitting was really not that much more work.

[Yowster 7,997]

I voted with the one thread per month (posts should be based on the month of earnings announcement not the trade opening date).   The only potential issue is when unofficial trades become official trades at some point in time (but I guess we already have that happening with the current forum structure with no real way to avoid any confusion around this).

Edited August 23, 2017 by Yowster

[abandak 26]

I also think the one thread per month option is best. It seems like it will be the most efficient for folks posting a lot and for those who just want to follow new ideas

[Rogers 263]

I voted #4 (one thread per month).  I feel that one thread is still the best method for these discussions and invites more conversations. I haven't had much trouble following the thread but will make an effort to spell out the trade that is being referenced.  

[RapperT 335]

I think the threads for new ideas have been very successful.  Im referring specifically to ideas such as the VXX diagonals and short strangles (before we stopped posting to it when the new unofficial trade idea thread opened).

 

• we can quickly reference the initial rational just like official SO trade ideas
• we can see how the trade evolves over time in one thread
• New members can be instructed to read through the thread before posting redundant questions
• the board would be less clutters, we wouldn't have to follow as many topics
• healthy debate makes this board thrive.  I think we preserve conversational momentum when each idea has it's own thread.

Edited August 23, 2017 by RapperT

[rkvbeach 1]

I agree & had just quit the thread because it was getting out of hand.

Just my thoughts

[Gamma Stalker 10]

Since I'm still learning the process and haven't contributed as much as I intend to contribute, I'll happily go along with the contributors. Is there a danger, though, in missing communication about trades carrying over from the current month to the following month or from the past month to the current month if the determination is made to separate "unofficial trade" threads by month. Also, would these be month of entry, month of idea, or month of expiry? Would this necessitate having to update to a posting in a previous month or would currently open trades automatically roll over to the current month. It seems that following a 20 page thread is fairly time consuming in itself if one wants to check all the history of a particular idea.  Just a thought. Hope I haven't offended anyone by asking.

[Bull3t007 119]

I think it is a good idea to split the discussion. However, wouldn't a topic for every month just be the same as we have right now but just cut up? It would maybe create even more confusion since people might discuss a trade and when its the end of the month the discussion might need to be continued on the new month topic, creating one discussion within two or even more threads. (I.E. long trades like VIX, SVXY, VXX etc). I voted option 3 which seems the most organised, if a trade lasts a long time like potentially the SVXY this might make it easier instead of trying to find parts of that discuss the underlying in multiple threads. 

[4tach 15]

As I understand #2, all discussions go one place; all trades to another. If both are used with keywords such as TLT, TIF, TOL then a reader (user) can find (assemble) all info for one underlying (by using already available keyword searching features). The actual trades (opened and closed) are of most interest to me and a scroll through a trades thread seems fairly easy.   General human laziness will likely work against each underlying having a separate (but viable) thread.
 

[SBatch 2,269]

1 hour ago, Kim said:

@SBatchI completely agree.

 

So here are few questions/comments:

1. Is creating a new topic for each trade idea really much more time consuming than replying to an existing topic?

2. How spiting to 2 topics (trades and discussions) would help? I don't think members would remember to make a clear separation, and also how would it work? If you plan to enter xxx to will post it under discussions, and then the actual fills under trades topic? Sounds a bit artificial.

 

Personally I voted to option #4 (new topic each month). I think it will resolve the issue of topic becoming a monster, and can be a good compromise. Also members will have to follow only once a month which is also a good thing.

 

I would like to hear more from members who post the most @Yowster @RapperT @Rogers @Djtux etc.

@Kim Regarding #2, I and several others do not discuss a trade before opening it.  I just post my fill once I execute a trade.  Under the two threads, I would be able to post my fill to the Trade thread and simply copy that post to the Discussion thread where collaboration could take place.  This process would keep the Trade thread very clean.  Others could choose to post in the Discussion thread first if they were looking for feedback, but if and when the trade is executed they would post the detail to the Trade thread.  It is likely many members would simply subscribe only to the Trade thread which would give them all ideas as they become active unofficial trades.

[Paul 321]

1 hour ago, RapperT said:

I think the threads for new ideas have been very successful.  Im referring specifically to ideas such as the VXX diagonals and short strangles (before we stopped posting to it when the new unofficial trade idea thread opened).

 

• we can quickly reference the initial rational just like official SO trade ideas
• we can see how the trade evolves over time in one thread
• New members can be instructed to read through the thread before posting redundant questions
• the board would be less clutters, we wouldn't have to follow as many topics
• healthy debate makes this board thrive.  I think we preserve conversational momentum when each idea has it's own thread.

I strongly support Rappers quote above.  Especially the ability to track a trade over a number of cycles in one thread.  There are many trades that probably won't fit the Steady Options parameters but can still be profitable with a little finesse which these discussions enable.  When or if a member spots a good opportunity they know where to go and what to compare to without the clutter of navigating the rest.

[Noah Katz 90]

1 hour ago, Kim said:

...2. How spiting to 2 topics (trades and discussions) would help? I don't think members would remember to make a clear separation, and also how would it work? If you plan to enter xxx to will post it under discussions, and then the actual fills under trades topic? Sounds a bit artificial.

 

Isn't that exactly the structure of the official trades?

[Kim 7,488]

6 minutes ago, Noah Katz said:

 

Isn't that exactly the structure of the official trades?

Yes. But the difference is that only me can post and reply to trades topic. And there is separate topic for each trade, not all trades under the same topic.

 

Looks like virtually all members want some kind of separation, and big majority of members support going by trade idea separation (option #3). Just to clarify - option #3 implies one topic per symbol, not per trade. Meaning that CIEN topic will be opened only once and serve all following CIEN trades.

 

But there is also strong support to option #4 - new topic every month, based on earnings date. So we will need to chose between those two options (3 or 4). I know it will be a compromise and not everyone will be happy but at least it will be better than the current structure.

[Noah Katz 90]

1 minute ago, Kim said:

Just to clarify - option #3 implies one topic per symbol, not per trade. Meaning that CIEN topic will be opened only once and serve all following CIEN trades.

 

 

Glad you mentioned that; my preference is for option #3 exactly as described - i.e. per trade, not per symbol, which makes it easier to manage our actual trades.

 

We may have only entered a particular trade for a symbol, and not be interested in others.

[SBatch 2,269]

4 minutes ago, Kim said:

Yes. But the difference is that only me can post and reply to trades topic. And there is separate topic for each trade, not all trades under the same topic.

 

Looks like virtually all members want some kind of separation, and big majority of members support going by trade idea separation (option #3). Just to clarify - option #3 implies one topic per symbol, not per trade. Meaning that CIEN topic will be opened only once and serve all following CIEN trades.

 

But there is also strong support to option #4 - new topic every month, based on earnings date. So we will need to chose between those two options (3 or 4). I know it will be a compromise and not everyone will be happy but at least it will be better than the current structure.

Option #3 poses potential pitfalls when Unofficial trades become Official.  Also, what happens when they are Official one cycle and only Unofficial the next cycle?

[Kim 7,488]

2 minutes ago, Noah Katz said:

 

 

Glad you mentioned that; my preference is for option #3 exactly as described - i.e. per trade, not per symbol, which makes it easier to manage our actual trades.

 

We may have only entered a particular trade for a symbol, and not be interested in others.

It's actually per symbol. Meaning "CIEN earnings idea", one topic under "unofficial trade ideas" forum, and NOT "CIEN August 2017" topic, then "CIEN Novermber 2017 topic etc.

[Paul 321]

2 hours ago, Kim said:

@SBatchI completely agree.

 

So here are few questions/comments:

1. Is creating a new topic for each trade idea really much more time consuming than replying to an existing topic?

2. How spiting to 2 topics (trades and discussions) would help? I don't think members would remember to make a clear separation, and also how would it work? If you plan to enter xxx to will post it under discussions, and then the actual fills under trades topic? Sounds a bit artificial.

 

Personally I voted to option #4 (new topic each month). I think it will resolve the issue of topic becoming a monster, and can be a good compromise. Also members will have to follow only once a month which is also a good thing.

 

I would like to hear more from members who post the most @Yowster @RapperT @Rogers @Djtux etc.

I don't understand how posting by month of earnings is really going to simplify things.  I do realize that it is only one thread but most of the other threads created will only be in the spotlight 4 times a year,except the more generic ones like VXX diagonals etc.  If you are interested in the less generic trades and discussions like specific straddles or calendars like NVDA for example,, a person will have to do a lot of searching

[Kim 7,488]

3 minutes ago, SBatch said:

Option #3 poses potential pitfalls when Unofficial trades become Official.  Also, what happens when they are Official one cycle and only Unofficial the next cycle?

I don't see an issue here. If we have CIEN unofficial topic, and in some cycle I open CIEN official discussion, I just post a link.

[Kim 7,488]

1 minute ago, Paul said:

I don't understand how posting by month of earnings is really going to simplify things.  I do realize that it is only one thread but most of the other threads created will only be in the spotlight 4 times a year,except the more generic ones like VXX diagonals etc.  If you are interested in the less generic trades and discussions like specific straddles or calendars like NVDA for example,, a person will have to do a lot of searching

We are not talking about more generic trades like VXX. Those "unofficial" trade ideas are mostly earnings trades that don't make it into our official model portfolio.

 

So I agree, while I initially voted for one topic per month, I now tend to agree that one topic per symbol might be better. Realistically, there are probably around 40-50 symbols that are potential candidates cycle after cycle, so there will be 40-50 topics under the new forum. They will fit into 2 pages and make the search much easier.

[SBatch 2,269]

Just now, Kim said:

We are not talking about more generic trades like VXX. Those "unofficial" trade ideas are mostly earnings trades that don't make it into our official model portfolio.

 

So I agree, while I initially voted for one topic per month, I now tend to agree that one topic per symbol might be better. Realistically, there are probably around 40-50 symbols that are potential candidates cycle after cycle, so there will be 40-50 topics under the new forum. They will fit into 2 pages and make the search much easier.

I concur with this.  Initially it was my understanding that we would be opening a new discussion each cycle.  However, opening one thread for each symbol in perpetuity makes sense and would not be any more onerous than what we are currently doing (but would be far more useful into the future).

[anand331 137]

Agreed @Kim. Any other choice, while may look appealing will shortly bring us back to this decision because of cluttered discussions forum, difficult to follow but impossible to learn from.

[RapperT 335]

27 minutes ago, Kim said:

 

 

Looks like virtually all members want some kind of separation, and big majority of members support going by trade idea separation (option #3). Just to clarify - option #3 implies one topic per symbol, not per trade. Meaning that CIEN topic will be opened only once and serve all following CIEN trades.

 

 

If this is the case I misunderstood.  I thought you meant a thread for each trade idea versus each specific symbol

 

edit:  just saw your next comment so Im sticking with #3

Edited August 23, 2017 by RapperT

[anand331 137]

Just now, RapperT said:

If this is the case I misunderstood.  I thought you meant a thread for each trade idea versus each specific symbol

I initially did too, but having one unoffical thread per symbol is a very good compromise and since @SBatch agrees means we have a winner

[RapperT 335]

Just now, anand331 said:

I initially did too, but having one unoffical thread per symbol is a very good compromise and since @SBatch agrees means we have a winner

agree on all accounts, haha..I had posted that comment before I read the whole thread (n00b mistake)

[Djtux 543]

 

A little bit late to the party.
Regardless of the choice being made, can we get a sub-forum under https://steadyoptions.com/forums/forum/29-steadyoptions-so-members-forums/ (Something like unofficial trades discussions) ? 
I seem to understand there are 2 sets of members :

1. very active members that posts often, and most likely are going to share their trades. Obviously we don't want to create too much work for those members. After all, they are just doing us a favor by taking their time from their busy schedule and share their trades and answer questions about them. Make that process harder and you risk not getting as much trades posted.

2. less active members that might not have the time to follow all the posts (yes some have other commitments too, understandable). Of course we should try to make the thread easier to follow if we can, but to me it's an unofficial forum.

 

Another point is that #4 gives a forum to brainstorm potential trades : it's like the weekly candidates official discussion thread.
But at the same time if we put everyting in a monthly discussion thread, maybe it will get confusing. Not sure.
One thing for sure is that it's going to be difficult to reconcile my point 1 and 2 : you can't have posts that are very organized without some work. Who is going to do that work ? The people that already send time to shared their trades and answer questions ? Why put more work on them (they have a busy schedule too i believe) ?

 

So my proposal is to at least create a sub-forum, stick the current monthly discussion to keep the conversation going. And if people feel like creating a separate post for each ticker, then it's possible to do that too.
Then in 1 month or 2, we reevaluate.

Just my 2 cent

PS: took my a while to type that, and i just read the latest posts. Seems that we are going for the option #3. Where are we going to put the posts that do not belong anywhere ?

 

Edited August 23, 2017 by Djtux

[Kim 7,488]

Here you go - https://steadyoptions.com/forums/forum/40-unofficial-trade-ideas/

This is a new forum, and there is a topic https://steadyoptions.com/forums/forum/topic/3895-unofficial-trade-ideas/ under this forum that can be used for posting some general ideas/comments/questions.

I will start creating individual topics for symbols we already traded and move the comments to the new topics.