Tradier Brokerage Special Offer

[clems 27]

https://www.dynamictrend.com/

There's a Tradier specific version available for 20$ a month.  Doesn't have all of the features, but it's great.  Contact Tradier support to get signed up.

[Sonu 4]

I had worst experience with Tastyworks for fills for PANW. Looks issue is more visible in case of pre earning calendar.

From fill perspective only do you see IB or Tradier better ? I always thought fill is not factor to consider as in open market everyone use same kind of underlying technology/counter party.

[mccoyb53 805]

3 hours ago, mrw02536 said:

there is a previous answer to this discussing the role of Apex clearing 

Thanks. I went back through the posts and found this.

 

There seems to be some confusion in this thread regarding how brokers earn part of their revenue.  In addition to commissions all brokers/market makers/clearing firms  also receive rebates from the exchanges for order flow.  This is Tradier’s model.  They have extremely limited overhead as they do not provide their own platform (and therefore eliminate all the costs associated with developing and maintaining one).  They are a small shop with low expenses so the order flow rebate is enough to make them profitable. The lack of platform is solved by their API and outside developers.  This is the reason Tradier is not available in Canada for @Kim and others, because Canadian regulators do not allow rebate for order flow.  With regard to safety of assets, Tradier holds nothing.  They are simply an Introducing Broker to Apex who is the custodian.  Therefore, in addition to SIPC protection one should look at the stability of Apex which is very solid.

Edited February 16 by SBatch

[Sonu 4]

I am not sure whether we have thread for IB. But if we compare IB vs TastyWorks vs Tradier. Which provides best fill around mid price ? Most of our trades revolves around weekly options & moderately liquid underlying where efficient filling is very very important. Earlier I used to trade highly liquid underlying so never felt it is very important but now for pre earning trades it is must that we need broker who fights for fair fill. Anyone has experience to provide feedback around fills regarding those 3 brokers?

[Djtux 542]

1 hour ago, Sonu said:

I am not sure whether we have thread for IB. But if we compare IB vs TastyWorks vs Tradier. Which provides best fill around mid price ? Most of our trades revolves around weekly options & moderately liquid underlying where efficient filling is very very important. Earlier I used to trade highly liquid underlying so never felt it is very important but now for pre earning trades it is must that we need broker who fights for fair fill. Anyone has experience to provide feedback around fills regarding those 3 brokers?

Here is my opinion, please don't get offended, as i see you joined SO recently. I think you are trying to blame your broker for what happened on the PANW calendar exit.

Yes the broker might have an impact, but i think it's only second order effect. First would be to spend time to study the strategies, use proper size allocation, get good entry by using RV charts and previous SO threads to enter trades before the alerts. Also before you enter a trade, have an idea on your plan : what to do if the trade doesn't go your way, etc.

No broker fill is going to save you from your own mistake like a position that is too large, bad entry price, position adjustment when the trade doesn't go your way.

As long as you don't pay a ticket fee, and the commissions are not too expensive, i think you should focus your time on 1st order effect.

Just my 2 cent.

PS: i got losses on PANW as well and i was on IB.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Djtux

[Sonu 4]

@Djtux I really appreciate & respect your point of view. As I told earlier I used to trade highly liquid underlying only. I am finding myself difficult to understand why I am not get filled when my price was higher than mid. It looks sometimes mid price not correct for thinly traded stock. This is great relief to know that someone who is at IB also impacted, so better to move on to next trade. Thanks once again.

[4REAL 109]

19 hours ago, clems said:

https://www.dynamictrend.com/

There's a Tradier specific version available for 20$ a month.  Doesn't have all of the features, but it's great.  Contact Tradier support to get signed up.

@clems - is it $20 or $29.95 ?  Before I switched to TH I paid  $29.95/month for Trend

Edited February 28, 2018 by 4REAL

[clems 27]

Oh it might be $30, now that you mention it.  Either way it's cheap and 100000% worth it over the web interface.

[craigsmith 357]

10 minutes ago, 4REAL said:

@clems - is it $20 or $29.95 ?  Before I switched to TH I paid  $29.95/month for Trend

It's $29.99, I contacted Tradier this morning to get the details. 

Edited February 28, 2018 by craigsmith

[mrw02536 18]

In what way is Trend so useful?

[anand331 137]

@clems, @craigsmith did you get a chance to compare trend and tradehawk? I currently have tradehawk but appreciate if you can share any pros and cons.

[PGAmbrosio 53]

Thanks for the info @craigsmith.  From my research, the popular platforms to use with Tradier are

• Tradehawk $59/mo
• OptionNET Explorer $52-62/mo (135 GBP quarterly, 450 GBP annually)
• Trend $29.99/mo

[mrw02536 18]

I am able to trade Kim's SO trades on Tradier's native web based platform with no difficulty. What are the benefits of paying for these 3rd party platforms?

[craigsmith 357]

2 minutes ago, anand331 said:

@clems, @craigsmith did you get a chance to compare trend and tradehawk? I currently have tradehawk but appreciate if you can share any pros and cons.

I'm currently using Tradehawk. All I do in Tradehawk is open and close orders. All of my analysis and research, modeling, etc. is still done in IB or TOS. Maybe I'm not using it right, I've played around in it, but it just doesn't do or have any of the tools I need. Even something simple like saving a layout, does not work right. It's perfectly fine for the way I use it, quickly open and close orders.

 

My Trend account is being setup and I'll have access to it tomorrow. It looks much, much more powerful than Tradehawk. The only reason I didn't try it before was the price. I didn't even know there was a "cheaper" version, it's not listed on the Tradier website, or the Trend website. The only reason I knew to ask Tradier was because of @clems post from above.

 

We'll see how it goes, but for $40 a month for unlimited trading I just can't pass up Tradier, even if I have to use other tools and multiple brokers to get the info I need, the commission price is just too good.

[PGAmbrosio 53]

@craigsmith keep us posted, I am interested to get more views on Trend.

[craigsmith 357]

1 minute ago, PGAmbrosio said:

@craigsmith keep us posted, I am interested to get more views on Trend.

I'll definitely give some feedback after I get to use it for a few days.

[mustafaoe 10]

I am also using since couple of weeks TradeHawk, there are good ideas but the tool is still some kind of in its infancy. 

[craigsmith 357]

1 minute ago, mustafaoe said:

I am also using since couple of weeks TradeHawk, there are good ideas but the tool is still some kind of in its infancy. 

Funny you say that, that's exactly how I feel. Like it's "close", but not really ready for live trading.

[anand331 137]

I have been using TradeHawk for a little over a month. I find it very convenient for placing and amending orders. I also find its positions view much better than IB TWS. It breaks down your positions by symbol and then expiration. Saving spreads is a decent capability. I don't understand it's preview or what-if analysis graphs. Some of the delta values just appear incorrect to me. Maybe I need to read the detailed manual. Also, route to strategy, while a nice concept, looks like it is not fully baked. For example, it lets you route same trade multiple times to the same strategy and messes up the view. All in all, given tradier commission structure, it is worth the price just for the speed of order placement and comprehensive position view. I just don't want to waste time on leg-by-leg constructing orders and no p&l view using tradier web platform. As a backup, the web interface is fine. This is more of a personal view, no knock on folks using tradier web interface.

[SBatch 2,167]

I think you guys need to spend more time learning how to use TradeHawk.  I use it exclusively for all analysis and trading.  I have never used a platform before that allows for analysis and trading with such ease and quickness.  I'm not sure what tools people are referring to that don't exist, because I don't really see any imperative omissions.

[clems 27]

@mrw02536 I like being able to see how my adjustments affect my trade. Tradier provides 0 interface to natively do this.  If all you are doing is enter trades via signals and you don't care to see how your fills/adjustments affect things...I guess this is fine.  I found that many times I'd mess up the order and have to recreate it 2-3 times before I got it just right (forget to change a buy to open to buy to close or something simple like that - speed is key for me).  Too much room to make errors.  Using either of the platforms below, it's very easy to click on a current position  and the close order is auto-entered.

From my experience:

ONE:
Pros:

Good risk profiling.

Lots of options for customizing how the platform works.

Well established/tested.

Lots of 'help' as it's one of hte most used 3rd party platforms out there.

Cons:

does not sync with the broker.  Constantly have to ensure all of the postions are updated (when fills happen, etc.) - this was a deal killer for me.

Trend:

Pros:

Risk modeling of current and theoretical positions

Much snappier/reactive interface

Charting is much easier to interact with

Current (and projected) profit/loss via risk graph is very easy see.

Cons:

Current P/L on account view is based on 'last' price, not 'mid' price. - no way to change this.

If you have several adjustments, you have to keep track of total position P/L on your own.

 

Tradehawk:

Pros:

P/L of positions is accurate to closing at mid prices.

Lots of customization on account view.

Has a 'Strategy builder' to allow you to track a series of trades - auto-calulating P/L

Developers are SUPER responsive and open to feedback.

Cons:

Uses Java.  - Memory hog, prone to security vulnerabilities (Java, not tradehawk), and not as 'slick' looking/feeling as the new tech Trend interface.

Harder to close existing positions (have to adjust the buy/sell to open/close manually for each leg - Trend does this automatically).

Charting is awful.  Just not interactive at all.

 

Con All:

Something none of these have that I'd really like (TW has and IB at least notifies): No tracking of binary event data (dividends/earnings) - this is something I'd REALLY like to have to help me remember to close stuff on those days or just make better decisions about closing positions earlier than I would otherwise.  I do this on the side not as a full time job so it's hard for me to keep track of them all.

 

Just my experience. Hope it helps.

[anand331 137]

6 minutes ago, SBatch said:

I think you guys need to spend more time learning how to use TradeHawk.  I use it exclusively for all analysis and trading.  I have never used a platform before that allows for analysis and trading with such ease and quickness.  I'm not sure what tools people are referring to that don't exist, because I don't really see any imperative omissions.

@SBatch if you can point to any detailed documentation for preview and what-if tools, that will be really helpful. I know I am under utilizing TradeHawk capabilities in these areas. TWS portfolio analyst tool was very useful in looking at your overall risk and I don't think the default position risk viewer is as comprehensive.

[clems 27]

1 minute ago, anand331 said:

@SBatch if you can point to any detailed documentation for preview and what-if tools, that will be really helpful. I know I am under utilizing TradeHawk capabilities in these areas. TWS portfolio analyst tool was very useful in looking at your overall risk and I don't think the default position risk viewer is as comprehensive.

reach out to  info@mytradehawk.com .  I know they'd be happy to schedule time to help you use any of the features you want to learn about.

[SBatch 2,167]

3 minutes ago, anand331 said:

@SBatch if you can point to any detailed documentation for preview and what-if tools, that will be really helpful. I know I am under utilizing TradeHawk capabilities in these areas. TWS portfolio analyst tool was very useful in looking at your overall risk and I don't think the default position risk viewer is as comprehensive.

I would contact them and schedule a call.  Lex will walk you through all of the features.

[anand331 137]

2 minutes ago, clems said:

reach out to  info@mytradehawk.com .  I know they'd be happy to schedule time to help you use any of the features you want to learn about.

Thanks @clems. For closing positions, you don't need to adjust buy/sell sides in tradehawk. If you click on the position row in risk viewer, it automatically populates the spread leg with closing side. I actually find that closing trades is much easier in tradehawk, especially after you have made several adjustments.

[clems 27]

It's been awhile since I've used Tradehawk for closing as Trend is just overall more usable for me.  Glad they fixed it!

[SBatch 2,167]

4 minutes ago, anand331 said:

Thanks @clems. For closing positions, you don't need to adjust buy/sell sides in tradehawk. If you click on the position row in risk viewer, it automatically populates the spread leg with closing side. I actually find that closing trades is much easier in tradehawk, especially after you have made several adjustments.

Clicking on the legs in the Wisp will also automatically populate opening/closing not just from the Risk window.

[anand331 137]

Is the trend software ($30 one) a stripped down version? The trend website shows it for $245 per month for Tradier. Just wondering if these were 2 different versions.

[clems 27]

Just now, anand331 said:

Is the trend software ($30 one) a stripped down version? The trend website shows it for $245 per month for Tradier. Just wondering if these were 2 different versions.

It doesn't have ALL of the features shown in the $245, but it's still very slick.  I dont' know where the comparison of the $30 vs $245 is located (if there is one).

[anand331 137]

1 minute ago, SBatch said:

Clicking on the legs in the Wisp will also automatically populate opening/closing not just from the Risk window.

Good to know, thanks. I thought that you have to click the bid or offer for it to determine the side.

[apsoccermd 27]

I used to have Trend.. Good software for option analytics etc, but it really lacks when it comes down to existing position management..  

All spread trades are broken down into individual positions (same as Tradier wesbsie).. To me this was a showstopper, but if you are OK with this then it's a really good software.. 

[Noah Katz 90]

16 minutes ago, anand331 said:

Thanks @clems. For closing positions, you don't need to adjust buy/sell sides in tradehawk. If you click on the position row in risk viewer, it automatically populates the spread leg with closing side. I actually find that closing trades is much easier in tradehawk, especially after you have made several adjustments.

 

That's true for single-legged positions using the Options window, but when you click on positions in multi-legged trades to close using the Spreads window, the qty is always 1.

It's a PITA as I frequently forget to adjust the qty and either think I've closed the position only to see that I have n-1 remaining, or if I catch it, I have to cancel and resubmit.

I requested that the qty's get transferred; the wrinkle is when all legs aren't the same qty, but Kosta said he might be able to do something for when they are.

[clems 27]

2 minutes ago, Noah Katz said:

 

That's true for single-legged positions using the Options window, but when you click on positions in multi-legged trades to close using the Spreads window, the qty is always 1.

It's a PITA as I frequently forget to adjust the qty and either think I've closed the position only to see that I have n-1 remaining, or if I catch it, I have to cancel and resubmit.

I requested that the qty's get transferred; the wrinkle is when all legs aren't the same qty, but Kosta said he might be able to do something for when they are.

This might be the headache I was thinking of rather than the open/close problem.

[anand331 137]

27 minutes ago, apsoccermd said:

I used to have Trend.. Good software for option analytics etc, but it really lacks when it comes down to existing position management..  

All spread trades are broken down into individual positions (same as Tradier wesbsie).. To me this was a showstopper, but if you are OK with this then it's a really good software.. 

That would be a deal breaker for me too.

[anand331 137]

19 minutes ago, Noah Katz said:

 

That's true for single-legged positions using the Options window, but when you click on positions in multi-legged trades to close using the Spreads window, the qty is always 1.

It's a PITA as I frequently forget to adjust the qty and either think I've closed the position only to see that I have n-1 remaining, or if I catch it, I have to cancel and resubmit.

I requested that the qty's get transferred; the wrinkle is when all legs aren't the same qty, but Kosta said he might be able to do something for when they are.

That is not a trivial problem to solve, especially when you want to close partially and the notion of original spread is no longer there if you make any adjustments. I do believe you can save spreads and then with one click populate the spread order window with the right size. I played with that a while back but haven't tried it with live trading.

[clems 27]

3 minutes ago, anand331 said:

That would be a deal breaker for me too.

Just in case others are concerned, you can select all of the 'related' positions you want to see P/L of and right-click -> risk graph to see the current P/L of the position.  I dont' like it as much either, but it works.  

[anand331 137]

1 minute ago, clems said:

Just in case others are concerned, you can select all of the 'related' positions you want to see P/L of and right-click -> risk graph to see the current P/L of the position.  I dont' like it as much either, but it works.  

Can you also multi-select->rightClick->createOrderTicket? If that is there, it's good enough.

[clems 27]

2 minutes ago, anand331 said:

Can you also multi-select->rightClick->createOrderTicket? If that is there, it's good enough.

To close, you select existing positions, right click -> close.
To open, you open option chain, select positions you want, right click -> Populate Trade Ticket, Alternatively, you setup risk graph with the positions to enter, rclick -> populate trade ticket.

[anand331 137]

3 minutes ago, clems said:

To close, you select existing positions, right click -> close.
To open, you open option chain, select positions you want, right click -> Populate Trade Ticket, Alternatively, you setup risk graph with the positions to enter, rclick -> populate trade ticket.

Thanks. That is clean.

[mrw02536 18]

What about profit and loss on closed positions on either Traderhawk or Trend? Can you filter stocks for closed positions gain/loss? Year-to-date?

[SBatch 2,167]

5 minutes ago, mrw02536 said:

What about profit and loss on closed positions on either Traderhawk or Trend? Can you filter stocks for closed positions gain/loss? Year-to-date?

Yes, you can run P&L based on symbol and month in TradeHawk.

Edited February 28, 2018 by SBatch

[clems 27]

8 minutes ago, SBatch said:

Yes, you can run P&L based on symbol and month in TradeHawk.

Trend does not have this type of 'closed' reporting.

Tradehawk also has the strategy builder that allows you to track more specific series of trades. (in case you are trading 2 different separate strategies using the same underlying in the same month).

[mrw02536 18]

I feel that if you can't keep daily track and ytd of p/l for trades than the platform is very limited. How can you trade if you don't know if  you're profiting or losing on closed trades

[SBatch 2,167]

3 minutes ago, mrw02536 said:

I feel that if you can't keep daily track and ytd of p/l for trades than the platform is very limited. How can you trade if you don't know if  you're profiting or losing on closed trades

As I've posted before you can do all of this in Apex.  Simply go to the Online Menu in the top left and choose Cost Basis.  There are tons of filters that can be applied to run very specific P&L reports.

[mrw02536 18]

I have done this and downloaded the report into excel. It doesn't matter if you filter by symbol on Apex because all you can export is the unfiltered report. Once in excel reformatting and editing is required to get this into a form that can be summed for gain/loss on the entire report. I haven't bothered to do symbol filtering in excel but this is much more involved then it ought to be. Furthermore, the report is not updated until the next day or so and, therefore, not always up to date. 

I also have an account at eTrade and their platform is contains all the p/l info updated real-time.

[SBatch 2,167]

1 minute ago, mrw02536 said:

I have done this and downloaded the report into excel. It doesn't matter if you filter by symbol on Apex because all you can export is the unfiltered report. Once in excel reformatting and editing is required to get this into a form that can be summed for gain/loss on the entire report. I haven't bothered to do symbol filtering in excel but this is much more involved then it ought to be. Furthermore, the report is not updated until the next day or so and, therefore, not always up to date. 

I also have an account at eTrade and their platform is contains all the p/l info updated real-time.

TradeHawk has realtime P&L in the platform.  It also has the ability to run P&L reports next business day.

[mustafaoe 10]

To be honest it is difficult to see the P&L of closed positions in TradeHawk. You have to go to Apex. TradeHawk provides a very good risk view on each of your open positions (but not on overall - here IB really powerful). There is a functionality to load all your closed positions but the view is not really helpful. I have already asked for some kind of equity curve and better structuring. The development team of TradeHawk is very responsive. I think the platform will develop in near future. They announced a major update in couple of weeks. I am looking for that.

The most annoying thing for me is that sometimes the trade execution or other key functionalities does not work. The tools seem like as it is frozen. I have to close the Command Center and re-start. This is the reason why I am saying that it looks like "raw" tool and needs some kind of maturity and bug fixing.

The other thing is there are very interesting tools in TradeHawk I would love to use them but I did not understand how they work, especially they volatility scanner. 

I think for the time being it is good having IB as fall back.

[Noah Katz 90]

27 minutes ago, mustafaoe said:

The most annoying thing for me is that sometimes the trade execution or other key functionalities does not work. The tools seem like as it is frozen. I have to close the Command Center and re-start.

 

I've had that issue 2 or 3 times per week, very frustrating.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Noah Katz

[krisbee 1,595]

New Tradehawk version released. Too much changing RED/GREEN background color in watchlist (annoying). Exploring the other features, they made Watchlists to have multiple lists, which is good to have!

[mustafaoe 10]

Is there any release update document or similar?