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On 8/1/2017 at 11:33 AM, Stanislav said:

 @SBatch,  @ChadK, thanks very much for your answers!

As far as I understand the Quicken export report only contains Qty/Price information per trade. So if I open a trade and then close it, there will be two lines in the report. And I has myself to figure out Realized P/L for the trade. That maybe the way to solve the problem, but I've took a look at Tradier API. And found they have an API to receive a gain/loss per trade for given account. So far, the description of the API looks very promising:

https://developer.tradier.com/documentation/accounts/get-account-gainloss

The result contains gain_loss field, as well as open_date, close_date, symbol for each trade.

Overall, seems like it is possible to solve tax accounting task in Tradier, and there are multiple ways to do it. I've also contacted Tradier support to see what they can tell me on the issue.

 

P.S. I took a look at Tradier REST API, and absolutely love it! Withing 2 minutes after registration in a Developer Sandbox I was able to receive delayed quotes for stocks using a sample Python script. The API is clean, easy, and very modern. Unlike the one in IB.

 

So I am taking a plunge and will give Tradier a shot for my options trading.. I am a developer by trade and might be looking into playing with API's myself to make  trading spread strategies more efficient.. 

Stanislav,   have you done anything interesting  so far?

 

I have looked at github and there some interesting open source stuff against Tradier API, but not much in terms of options..

https://github.com/search?o=desc&q=tradier&s=updated&type=Repositories

 

Thanks

 

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34 minutes ago, apsoccermd said:

So I am taking a plunge and will give Tradier a shot for my options trading.. I am a developer by trade and might be looking into playing with API's myself to make  trading spread strategies more efficient.. 

Stanislav,   have you done anything interesting  so far?

 

I have looked at github and there some interesting open source stuff against Tradier API, but not much in terms of options..

https://github.com/search?o=desc&q=tradier&s=updated&type=Repositories

 

Thanks

 

No, I wrote several Python scripts to play with their REST API. Just send simple get requests and display server's answer. Currently I do not have time to research further, but I am going to open Tradier account soon. Then I'll be more motivated to write my own scripts and so on.

There is a list of libraries on a Tradier web site:

https://developer.tradier.com/documentation/overview/libraries

Also in parallel thread @clems mentioned Dynamic Trend software, which integrates with Tradier for option trading, and worth looking at:

 

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@SBatch, or anyone who trade in Tradier: just to be safe I want to clarify, does Tradier allow trading volatility products - options on VXX, SVXY, options on VIX futures? Are there any known issues with margin calculation on these products? The first page of this thread discusses Tradier does not allow calendar trades on VIX options. This should not be an issue. But do they allow place calendars in SPX, or just buy some VIX calls for protection?

 

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I have done several VXX diagonals, and due to their low price and high number of contracts needed to amount to anything, the low commissions (only fees) are quite nice.  I've had good execution and they margin the diagonals "correctly".

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On 8/21/2017 at 0:15 PM, Gamma Stalker said:

@Stanislav, Thank you. I'll check it out!

@Gamma Stalker I'm using Trend as my primary interface to Tradier at the moment.  Feel free to ask any other questions you have about it.  So far I really like the product, especially given the $30 price tag.

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On 8/21/2017 at 2:52 PM, Sirion said:

So, market data access would be included in the trading platform fees for whichever one you pick? 

Does the actual market data availability differ between the trading platforms?

@Sirion Tradier provides real-time data at no charge.  Most platforms that interact with Tradier utilize this feed for their data streams (at least most of them that I've tried do).  Trend, TradeHawk, ONE, all can use Tradier's data feed.

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@Sirion It appears as no.  I just tried to do a lookup on them, neither pulled up.  There is definitely a limited product selection at Tradier. I'm guessing that it's not just the data, but the product itself that's missing in this case, but cannot verify.

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1 minute ago, clems said:

@Sirion It appears as no.  I just tried to do a lookup on them, neither pulled up.  There is definitely a limited product selection at Tradier. I'm guessing that it's not just the data, but the product itself that's missing in this case, but cannot verify.

Thanks for looking. I'll ask their support about it as I have a few other questions. 

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Do they group multi-leg option positions into a single row now on the portfolio page? (as opposed to listing all the legs separately) I see that many responses here say that they previously did not. However, I've emailed them about this and they say that they do. (they also said there is a button on the row that you can click to then view the individual legs) Can anyone confirm?

 

If so, does it also group them up if you order the legs in separate orders? (as opposed to one multi-leg order)

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3 minutes ago, Noah Katz said:

 

No, and neither does the $30/mo Trend s/w 

Really? Strange. I'll have to follow up on this then. This is what they had said in their email:

"Hi,

If you have a multi leg trade fill, it will show as one line and you will have a button to the left of the trade where you can expand it to see the individual legs.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

Sincerely,

Chris Lepore

Director of Operations

"

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1 hour ago, Noah Katz said:

 

No, and neither does the $30/mo Trend s/w 

@akito @Noah Katz

Noah is correct that neither Tradier or Trend do this.  However, with Trend, you can select multiple legs and go to a Risk Graph where it will show you where the expected p/l would be at different strikes AND will show you how much your spread is worth if you sold at the 'last' price.  I've found this to be much easier to use than IBs (as a comparison).

 

An alternative for you is TradeHawk, (mytradehawk.com).  Currently, this platform is $300 a month, but includes unlimited stock + option trading on all of your accounts.  They are looking at implementing a new pricing structure where it would be $50 a month + .35 per contract (no minimums) and if you generate $50 in commissions during the month, the $50 base fee would be waived.  - I don't know when this will happen (or if it will for sure).  But keep in mind, if you have 2-3 accounts, you have to pay $40 per month per account.  So you'll pay a bit more for the $300, but you'll save MUCH more than that depending on how many trades you are taking over the month (compared to other brokers).

 

In return, the software is really good.  They just added a feature to it to allow you to manage your 'Strategies'. It's currently in a BETA form, but soon it will allow you to take your current orders/positions, add them to a strategy, and it will track the performance of that end-to-end.  By default in the Portfolio screen (called 'Risk') they group them in a very meaningful way that shows your compiled P/L for symbols/expirations.  Example of my account attached.  If I had multiple expirations under a single symbol, it would show the P/L of each expiration.

I have a lot of feedback into the TH team about Strategy Builder to help make it better.  Once it's at a better spot, I'll be making a full review post of TradeHawk with additional information and expect this to be the most slick way I've found for managing your different trade strategies.

Hope this helps...

TradeHawkRiskExample.png.2fd280c3f72a1452ad7cebffea3b1ffe.png

TradeHawkRiskExample.png

TradeHawkRiskExample.png

Edited by clems

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So after about 1 months using Trend.. I am really not happy with the soffware.. Lack of grouping multi leg trades is a show stopper to me .. 

I reached out to Tradier and they offered me the following opionts: 

 

Option Dynamics (by Dynamic Trend) - $245/month

OptionNET Explorer - $55/month

Livevol Core - $100/month

Medved Trader - $15/month

Option Samurai - $25/month

OptionVue – direct subscription with OptionVue, contact them for pricing

 

Does anyone have any experience with "Medved Trade" or "Option Samurai"?

 

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19 minutes ago, apsoccermd said:

So after about 1 months using Trend.. I am really not happy with the soffware.. Lack of grouping multi leg trades is a show stopper to me .. 

I reached out to Tradier and they offered me the following opionts: 

 

Option Dynamics (by Dynamic Trend) - $245/month

OptionNET Explorer - $55/month

Livevol Core - $100/month

Medved Trader - $15/month

Option Samurai - $25/month

OptionVue – direct subscription with OptionVue, contact them for pricing

 

Does anyone have any experience with "Medved Trade" or "Option Samurai"?

 

Medved and Option Samurai are very basic offerings.  I use TradeHawk and am very pleased.  Thirty day free trial so no reason not to give it a shot.

https://mytradehawk.com/

 

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23 minutes ago, apsoccermd said:

i would love TradeHawk but my budget is $50 /m tops.. 

@apsoccermd

 

I just reached out to the Devs at TradeHawk.  They confirmed a new pricing plan that's available (website hasn't been updated yet).  Below are the details:
 
The new pricing came out. The Pro version is $49 per month with a la carte pricing on options, meaning $.35 per contract. 
 
Once someone hits 300+ contracts for the month the $49 is waived. 
 
The key on this plan compared to the Elite which is $299 unlimited is determining as a trader how many contracts on average per month you trade. So, some where around 800 contracts and lower, you’re better on the Pro whereas he active monthly traders should opt for Elite. NOTE: This likely CANNOT be combined with unlimited options trading (from STEADY-O13 coupon code @ Tradier) - Found this out the hard way, but you'd have to ask TradeHawk to know for sure.
 
As @SBatch mentioned, there is a 30 day free trial.  Would recommend checking it out.  Also would recommend scheduling a demo to show you the nice little things the platform can do.
 
Hope that helps.
Clems

 

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Sounds good. Just reachoud to Tradier and they said that its possiblel to combine both offers:

 

Q: So I can do TradeHawk + Steady Option for : 40$ + $49 = $89 a months with unlimited trading?

A: That is correct.  They would be separate fees, but you could get both for a total of $89 per month.  I have attached the agreement that you would need to use TradeHawk.

 

So the question is .. based on standard  steadyoptions trading activity.. is  "$49 per month with a la carte pricing on options, meaning $.35 per contract"  better deal then $89 a month for all you can trade?

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Wow, that is awesome that you can combine the offers!

On a side note, for $.35 per contract, would they still have their $5 and $7 minimums? (for single and multi leg orders, respectively) on their $49 tradehawk pro deal.

Edited by akito

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8 minutes ago, akito said:

Wow, that is awesome that you can combine the offers!

On a side note, for $.35 per contract, would they still have their $5 and $7 minimums? (for single and multi leg orders, respectively) on their $49 tradehawk pro deal.

@akito  No ticket minimums through Tradehawk.  Just .35 and that's it.

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13 minutes ago, apsoccermd said:

Sounds good. Just reachoud to Tradier and they said that its possiblel to combine both offers:

 

Q: So I can do TradeHawk + Steady Option for : 40$ + $49 = $89 a months with unlimited trading?

A: That is correct.  They would be separate fees, but you could get both for a total of $89 per month.  I have attached the agreement that you would need to use TradeHawk.

 

So the question is .. based on standard  steadyoptions trading activity.. is  "$49 per month with a la carte pricing on options, meaning $.35 per contract"  better deal then $89 a month for all you can trade?

Nice!  Thanks for reporting back!  That's awesome!  This is a GREAT deal.

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11 minutes ago, apsoccermd said:

Sounds good. Just reachoud to Tradier and they said that its possiblel to combine both offers:

 

Q: So I can do TradeHawk + Steady Option for : 40$ + $49 = $89 a months with unlimited trading?

A: That is correct.  They would be separate fees, but you could get both for a total of $89 per month.  I have attached the agreement that you would need to use TradeHawk.

 

So the question is .. based on standard  steadyoptions trading activity.. is  "$49 per month with a la carte pricing on options, meaning $.35 per contract"  better deal then $89 a month for all you can trade?

I wonder, if offers can be combined TradeHawk Pro ($49) + SO offer ($40/month flat fee for unlimited commission free options trades), why would anyone choose the Elite version ? 

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1 minute ago, 4REAL said:

I wonder, if offers can be combined TradeHawk Pro ($49) + SO offer ($40/month flat fee for unlimited commission free options trades), why would anyone choose the Elite version ? 

1) Some people have multiple accounts - it's $40 per account for unlimited trading. (Mind you it would take 7+ accounts to overcome this difference)

2) Most people that choose Tradier use their base fees (I'm assuming).  

 

Another point....you likely won't get the $50 waived after 300 contracts if you aren't paying the .35 ....Still worthwhile to use the $40 option for sure.

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12 minutes ago, 4REAL said:

I wonder, if offers can be combined TradeHawk Pro ($49) + SO offer ($40/month flat fee for unlimited commission free options trades), why would anyone choose the Elite version ? 

My thought is that not everyone is with or knows about SteadyOptions, so the SteadyOptions+Tradier deal would not be available to them. In that case, the Elite version would be right for them.

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1 minute ago, apsoccermd said:

So whats the better deal if one just follows SteadyOptions trade? I am new here so still trying to gage the average  monthly options volume...

That completely depends on your account size.  The model portfolio uses a 10% allocation per trade and averages about 10 trades a month.  The contract amount will be dictated by your capital amount.  A $10,000 account would allot $1,000 per trade and would trade a lot less contracts than a $100,000 account that is allotting $10,000 per trade.  

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5 minutes ago, apsoccermd said:

So whats the better deal if one just follows SteadyOptions trade? I am new here so still trying to gage the average  monthly options volume...

well the Tradier website interface is very bare bone, so to trade calendars/ straddles/ verticals it is better to have another platform. Options are : 1) Trend @ $30/month + SO offer ($40/month flat fee for unlimited commission free options trades) or 2) TradeHawk Pro ($49) + SO offer ($40/month flat fee for unlimited commission free options trades).

Trend is not bad, but I guess that 2) is the better deal. Maybe others can chime in, b/c I don't know TradeHawk

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That said, the math is pretty easy.

$40 (per account) for unlimited trading.

$0.35 per contract (open and close - $0.70 round trip)

40 / .35 = 114.3

So 115 contracts would be your breakeven point.

 

Assuming you take:

10 hedged straddle trades a month

Straddle trades last 3 weeks

You use 3:1 ratio on all positions

You don't have to roll longs (to rebalance to delta neutral)

 

3 (open) x 3 (close) x 10 longs = 60 contracts

4 (open per straddle) x 10 (straddles) x 2 (weeks of selling premium prior to earnings) = 80 contracts

 

Just that math puts you over the 115 mark.  I have a hard time imagining anyone doing fewer than 115 contracts in a month (who is serious about option trading)

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2 minutes ago, 4REAL said:

well the Tradier website interface is very bare bone, so to trade calendars/ straddles/ verticals it is better to have another platform. Options are : 1) Trend @ $30/month + SO offer ($40/month flat fee for unlimited commission free options trades) or 2) TradeHawk Pro ($49) + SO offer ($40/month flat fee for unlimited commission free options trades).

Trend is not bad, but I guess that 2) is the better deal. Maybe others can chime in, b/c I don't know TradeHawk

I'm using both right now, and the biggest drawback to TradeHawk right now is their risk graphing/what-if scenarios.  I really like how Trend has done that.   Also their charting is lackluster (but there's lots of resources for that).  if you are looking for something to easily see your current portfolio status and enter trades without much hassle, Tradehawk is perfect.

 

If you want a few more analysis tools, I like Trend better.

 

I'm going to continue to pay for Trend for the risk graph by itself. (Mostly for non-SO stuff).

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6 hours ago, apsoccermd said:

So whats the better deal if one just follows SteadyOptions trade? I am new here so still trying to gage the average  monthly options volume...

You could look at Tastyworks!  $1 per contract and no closing fees.  

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I am wondering if anyone has figured out a good way to calculate the P & L and track tradier trades since their software is so basic . I am using a word document and typing everything by hand for right now " I am not the best with software applications " 

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2 hours ago, semsem24 said:

I am wondering if anyone has figured out a good way to calculate the P & L and track tradier trades since their software is so basic . I am using a word document and typing everything by hand for right now " I am not the best with software applications " 

The Apex (their custodian) website allows you to run P&L reports:

https://public-apps.apexclearing.com/session/#/login

 

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6 hours ago, semsem24 said:

I am wondering if anyone has figured out a good way to calculate the P & L and track tradier trades since their software is so basic . I am using a word document and typing everything by hand for right now " I am not the best with software applications " 

Tradehawk is introducing a new feature soon called Strategy builder which will allow you to add your transactions to a 'strategy' and it will keep track of your P/L of each position.  Super excited for when this is completed.  Still in 'beta' right now.

 

In the meantime i've been using www.tradeportfoliomanager.com

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On 8/4/2017 at 8:05 PM, DrBG said:

Has anyone tried to open a Roth IRA or other type of IRA at Tradier for Options Trading? Right now it seems to have some disadvantages relative to IB after testing it out for a day. They do offer the same $40 per month deal but...

Every trade seems to need to be cash secured...the buying power rules seem to be weird and ALWAYS protected for assignment. Limiting losses with spreads like put spreads, call spreads, iron condors, or calendars seems to make no difference in how they compute buying power. This seems to make the straddle/short strangle approach we use less viable, as well as calendars. All of these trades may need to be done in an IRA account with limited margin, like IB.

Just sticking to long straddles and there may be some benefit.

I'm thinking about dividing my options IRA money between IB and Tradier, and using IB for condors/calendars as well as straddle/SStrangle combos, and using Tradier for straight straddle plays. I may just have to watch the straddle/short strangle positions on here until later and enter about a week before earnings...

Has anyone else run into this issue and found a solution? I apologize if this has been answered before. 

 

edit...maybe it's just a question of level 3 options... i've read they approve it for IRAs but we'll see

Would you be able to tell me how you got an access to the APEX site with Tradier account: 

https://public-apps.apexclearing.com/session/#/login/

I have tried registering few times on their public access.. but it does not seem to be able to create me a user id.. 

 

Thanks

Edited by apsoccermd

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That's where I went.  Selected Create User ID, then Next, then select "10-Apex Clearing Corporation", then put in your Tradier account number.  Your account number can be found at the top of the web page after logging in to Tradier.  (I didn't want to step through any further to provide further directions as I'm already set up.)  For those of you with TastyWorks accounts, you can use this same process, selecting #10 and using your TastyWorks account number.  I had to create a second login to do so.  Not sure how to link them together.

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1 hour ago, ales19 said:

Is there any way for a non US citizen to set up an account with Tradier? (e.g. through an LLC or some other structure)

They open accounts for non US citizen's on a case by case basis. Just write a letter to their support.

See also my comment in this thread:

 

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Had just signed up for Tradier last week and made my first trade today. Definitely will need to get used to their interface, but it's not too bad.

 

Has anyone thought (or even tried) to write up a userscript to customize their default web interface? (for example, using greasemonkey/violentmonkey browser extensions to then load the userscript, which is basically just javascript. so just injecting some javascript into the page) I'm going to spend some time writing one up. I really need to see the position legs grouped up. It's just so much easier to see how the overall position is doing. Probably going to add in some buttons to make it easier and quicker to enter/close orders as well. All this data entry is going to get real tedious real quick.

 

Sure tradehawk looks awesome, but I really need to be able to easily manage positions and make trades on my mobile device. I'm planning on using the firefox android app since you can install browser addons/extensions in it. (for loading userscripts, greasemonkey doesn't work in firefox android, but one extension called "usi" does and it works very well)

Edited by akito

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I have been using tradier now and I am wondering how they account for the account value . I did several trades that did well however my account value according to them doesn't increase .. I didn't get to audit each transaction but I was wondering if anyone else had the same experience 

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23 hours ago, semsem24 said:

I have been using tradier now and I am wondering how they account for the account value . I did several trades that did well however my account value according to them doesn't increase .. I didn't get to audit each transaction but I was wondering if anyone else had the same experience 

I haven't closed any of my positions yet on Tradier (so I don't know how accurate the total account values are after completing a trade), but I did see that the total values up top are calculated with the option mid prices and the values of each leg are calculated on last prices. (As opposed to mid) Super confusing as the last prices are sometimes better or worse than mid. I asked Tradier about this and here is what they said:

 

-----------------

 

Hi,

You are exactly correct on which calculation is used in each section.  The position page uses the last price while the total account value uses the mid-price.  We do plan to use the mid for the position page at some point, but we do not have an ETA of when that will be changed.

Sincerely,

Chris Lepore

Director of Operations

 

Edited by akito

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