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Kim

Tradier Brokerage Special Offer

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Hello,

I want to see if some of you have more feed back on Tradier . The fee they charge seem very cheap and it might be worthed . I am also wondering if there are hidden fees @luxmon

I am not sure in your opinion , it is still worthed because of how cheap they are or there is too much going on with them that it may not make sense

I am also thinking that the cheaper fees can open up a new area for us where we can trade cheaper calendars and book some gains without the worry about the fees

Also is that deal for the foreseeable future with no changes or they can switch the rates after a period of time ??

please advice

Thanks

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One more thing with Tradier...  they do not provide quotes on RUT (Russell 2000) index.  They have quotes for RUT's options, but not RUT itself.  Therefore, you need to use another source just to find out what the current price of RUT is.  This also applies to when using OptionNetExplorer (ONE) to model trades.  ONE gets all messed up because it needs the current price of RUT to do any calculations.

@semsem24 There are no hidden fees that I've found.  $40 per month gets subracted from your account, and each contract's fees are about $0.09 per contract.  The few trades I've put on have already paid for (more than) a month's worth of OptionNetExplorer to use as a front-end.  They claimed that they do not have a planned end date for this deal, but reserve the right to change at any time.  It is currently not an introductory offer with an expiration date.  That said, I'm not sure how they can stay in business only making $40 per customer.

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@mglaezer Hello,

Just wondering how you made out with your taxes while using Tradier? Any other issues you encountered? Have you continued to compare executions and do you feel they can compete with fills members are receiving with IB? Thanks for your feedback.

 

Rob. 

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They almost had me until I read the fine print.

In particular, among other things, "in order to sell naked calls, there must be a minimum account balance of $100,000",...plus several other very capital intensive requirements.

At IB there are no requirements, outside the standard SEC rules, for any trades.

As a matter of fact, they go out of their way to allow you to do things, allowable, for the lowest requirements.

I don't want to tie up $100,000 in case I "might" do a ratio one day.

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Clarification from Tradier:

 

"This $100,000 requirement only applies when someone wants to write a naked call.  Naked calls are considered the most risky option strategy and that is why there is such a large account requirement.  As long as the customer is trading a short call as part of a spread, there is only a $2,000 account requirement."

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44 minutes ago, Kim said:

Clarification from Tradier:

 

"This $100,000 requirement only applies when someone wants to write a naked call.  Naked calls are considered the most risky option strategy and that is why there is such a large account requirement.  As long as the customer is trading a short call as part of a spread, there is only a $2,000 account requirement."

I was wondering why, if a naked call is "the most risky option strategy", then why are there no other brokerages that require anything remotely near $100,000 to execute such a trade?

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12 minutes ago, cuegis said:

I was wondering why, if a naked call is "the most risky option strategy", then why are there no other brokerages that require anything remotely near $100,000 to execute such a trade?

I agree - and I told them that I think this requirement is ridiculous.

But I think you can easily go around this requirement by buying a cheap far OTM call to make it a spread. Just select a call which is far enough and cost 5 cents or so.

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I'm between Tastyworks and Tradier for my new margin account.  Aware of the drawbacks to Tastyworks, but benefits would be mobile app, eventual futures, and broker/platform all at one place.  Does anyone interface with Tradier via mobile, and how is it working?  BTW the $40/month deal is still available for Steady Options folks

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18 hours ago, Kim said:

I agree - and I told them that I think this requirement is ridiculous.

But I think you can easily go around this requirement by buying a cheap far OTM call to make it a spread. Just select a call which is far enough and cost 5 cents or so.

Which effectively means that for straddles your "free trade" now starts to cost $2.50 per leg. That's not very attractive.

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4 minutes ago, Dr. Z. said:

Which effectively means that for straddles your "free trade" now starts to cost $2.50 per leg. That's not very attractive.

This is only when holding a pure naked call (which we never do).  This would not apply to straddles or our straddle/short strangle trades.

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8 minutes ago, SBatch said:

This is only when holding a pure naked call (which we never do).  This would not apply to straddles or our straddle/short strangle trades.

So, if I have a ratio (long 1 call, short 2 higher strike calls) then there is 1 naked call in that picture, right?

I need $100,000 to put on a ratio?

If so, this is the only brokerage with such extreme requirements.

Why have they broken SO far away from industry norms?

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9 minutes ago, SBatch said:

This is only when holding a pure naked call (which we never do).  This would not apply to straddles or our straddle/short strangle trades.

 

"We" being official SO trades, but there are also those of us who do trade things other than SO trades, which does include naked calls.

 

I've been pleased with Tradier so far.  I'm on my 4th month or so.  I just trade my "undefined risk" trades in TOS, and other "defined risk" trades in Tradier.

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2 minutes ago, cuegis said:

So, if I have a ratio (long 1 call, short 2 higher strike calls) then there is 1 naked call in that picture, right?

I need $100,000 to put on a ratio?

If so, this is the only brokerage with such extreme requirements.

Why have they broken SO far away from industry norms?

Haven't they also broken so far away from the norm with $0 commissions?  If you trade nakeds in a huge amount then Tradier is not for you.  However, you have already stipulated that you do not, so why such the negative focus?  Just keep open your IB account to trade nakeds and the problem is solved quite simply.

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11 minutes ago, SBatch said:

Haven't they also broken so far away from the norm with $0 commissions?  If you trade nakeds in a huge amount then Tradier is not for you.  However, you have already stipulated that you do not, so why such the negative focus?  Just keep open your IB account to trade nakeds and the problem is solved quite simply.

I guess I didn't get my question across clearly.

I was confused after hearing some comments that said their ($100,000) rule applies only to straight out naked calls.

Then, someone else mentioned something along the lines of "it's not naked, if it is part of a package, or spread, where delta is offset with other options" (i'm paraphrasing here)

There are brokerages that would be very strict with a position that was ONLY a naked call.

But the industry standard uses a formula that balances the greeks.

Yes, I know that ratio can start out "greek neutral", but , with a large enough move, you could be left holding  1 short call.

Different brokerages follow each of those methods.

I didn't know which one Tradier followed.

 

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2 minutes ago, cuegis said:

I guess I didn't get my question across clearly.

I was confused after hearing some comments that said their ($100,000) rule applies only to straight out naked calls.

Then, someone else mentioned something along the lines of "it's not naked, if it is part of a package, or spread, where delta is offset with other options" (i'm paraphrasing here)

There are brokerages that would be very strict with a position that was ONLY a naked call.

But the industry standard uses a formula that balances the greeks.

Yes, I know that ratio can start out "greek neutral", but , with a large enough move, you could be left holding  1 short call.

Different brokerages follow each of those methods.

I didn't know which one Tradier followed.

 

Kim had mentioned adding a long far out of the money call to cover the short call (not an unbalanced Delta offset).  All Reg-T brokers would consider your example of unbalanced to the short call side a naked, regardless of delta, etc.(Portfolio Margin would not have such a strict requirement).  Technically this is a straight out naked call.  If you entered a ratio of one long call against two short calls on a stock that was at $10 and moved to $50 on a buyout, how do you think your spread would fare?  This is obviously what they are defending against.  And for the record, they are not outside industry norms here.  OptionsXpress has the exact same requirement.

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4 minutes ago, SBatch said:

Kim had mentioned adding a long far out of the money call to cover the short call (not an unbalanced Delta offset).  All Reg-T brokers would consider your example of unbalanced to the short call side a naked, regardless of delta, etc.(Portfolio Margin would not have such a strict requirement).  Technically this is a straight out naked call.  If you entered a ratio of one long call against two short calls on a stock that was at $10 and moved to $50 on a buyout, how do you think your spread would fare?  This is obviously what they are defending against.  And for the record, they are not outside industry norms here.  OptionsXpress has the exact same requirement.

This is the RegT formula...

 

Short Naked Call

"Stock Options 1
Call Price + Maximum ((20% 2 * Underlying Price - Out of the Money Amount), 
(10% * Underlying Price))"

Are you saying that the only way to accommodate $0 commissions is to require $100,000 minimum to do this trade?

Is it $100K per short call ( ex 10 short calls = $1 million)?

Or, are they saying that if you expect to , at some point in time, have more shorts than longs, then they want you to keep a $100K minimum in your acct as a form of providing some degree of protection for themselves.

We know that every single brokerage has many accounts that have short calls, from time to time, and do not have this $100K requirement.

Can you remember the last time a brokerage went out of business because of a customer loss too large for the firm to withstand?

 

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1 minute ago, cuegis said:

This is the RegT formula...

 

Short Naked Call

"Stock Options 1
Call Price + Maximum ((20% 2 * Underlying Price - Out of the Money Amount), 
(10% * Underlying Price))"

Are you saying that the only way to accommodate $0 commissions is to require $100,000 minimum to do this trade?

Is it $100K per short call ( ex 10 short calls = $1 million)?

Or, are they saying that if you expect to , at some point in time, have more shorts than longs, then they want you to keep a $100K minimum in your acct as a form of providing some degree of protection for themselves.

We know that every single brokerage has many accounts that have short calls, from time to time, and do not have this $100K requirement.

Can you remember the last time a brokerage went out of business because of a customer loss too large for the firm to withstand?

 

No, I'm not saying that $0 commissions has anything to do with the $100,000 requirement.  I didn't remotely insinuate this.  OptionsXpress has the same policy, so does SpeedTrader and a variety of others. I didn't write the policy nor did I say I agreed with it.  However it doesn't matter to me.  If you don't like to policy then don't open an account with them.

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58 minutes ago, cuegis said:

This is the RegT formula...

 

Short Naked Call

"Stock Options 1
Call Price + Maximum ((20% 2 * Underlying Price - Out of the Money Amount), 
(10% * Underlying Price))"

Are you saying that the only way to accommodate $0 commissions is to require $100,000 minimum to do this trade?

Is it $100K per short call ( ex 10 short calls = $1 million)?

Or, are they saying that if you expect to , at some point in time, have more shorts than longs, then they want you to keep a $100K minimum in your acct as a form of providing some degree of protection for themselves.

We know that every single brokerage has many accounts that have short calls, from time to time, and do not have this $100K requirement.

Can you remember the last time a brokerage went out of business because of a customer loss too large for the firm to withstand?

 

Regarding this question:

"Is it $100K per short call ( ex 10 short calls = $1 million)?"

To be clear that is not the policy.  A $100,000 minimum account value is required to be granted the option approval level to write naked calls.  Once approved (and the balance is kept above $100,000) the Reg-T rules are utilized to determine the margin requirements. 

Edited by SBatch

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Just signed up with Tradier - test traded here for two days. On top of the $40 flat monthly fee, from what I can tell in the commissions pdf report, per contract bought or sold, there is two other fees: Trans Fee and Additional fee, totaling about 10c per contract on average. I believe these are the "exchange regulatory fees and pass-thru fees"

This is what I feel about the product:

Pros:

  • Execution for the most part is similar to that on IB
  • 10c a contract - economic for low-premium symbols/strategies
  • API is quite straightforward and capable, simple http request and response in XML. Easier to work with than for instance that of IB.

Cons:

  • This is a so-called API brokerage. They have a primitive web interface that I suppose they don't really intend for you to trade with.
    • The interface is absolutely minimum for order management and position management. Not to mention the absence of any other brokerage client software features. You would be expected to link a supported order management application to Tradier or to build your own software.
    • For instance, with the minimalist interface, on order entry, you would have to enter each leg (expiration, strike, side, qty) in a combo, and when you modify - you only get to modify the price. No chance to modify quantity or side, or the combo setup.
    • Position management -
      • after execution on the interface you no longer see the combo position. It's broken into pieces
      • No place to download trade executions, as you would from the interactive broker's flex report interface. I would imagine for larger and numerous positions, traders would have to rely on their own software (home made API clients or an OMS app) in order to journal the trades. 

Support is okay for a small firm. The turnaround for my technical questions is about 24 hours. But when their system had issues - Tradier backend was not responsive to order modification for half-hour on 2nd day of my trading after market open, they did not send notification or display the issue on their web. A broker had to help me change the order on the phone.

Overall, I don't think one can rely on Tradier as a brokerage alone. But with appropriate software or tools, it's a worthwhile broker for some of SO trades to help with commissions.

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4 minutes ago, wr200m said:

Just signed up with Tradier - test traded here for two days. On top of the $40 flat monthly fee, from what I can tell in the commissions pdf report, per contract bought or sold, there is two other fees: Trans Fee and Additional fee, totaling about 10c per contract on average. I believe these are the "exchange regulatory fees and pass-thru fees"

This is what I feel about the product:

Pros:

  • Execution for the most part is similar to that on IB
  • 10c a contract - economic for low-premium symbols/strategies
  • API is quite straightforward and capable, simple http request and response in XML. Easier to work with than for instance that of IB.

Cons:

  • This is a so-called API brokerage. They have a primitive web interface that I suppose they don't really intend for you to trade with.
    • The interface is absolutely minimum for order management and position management. Not to mention the absence of any other brokerage client software features. You would be expected to link a supported order management application to Tradier or to build your own software.
    • For instance, with the minimalist interface, on order entry, you would have to enter each leg (expiration, strike, side, qty) in a combo, and when you modify - you only get to modify the price. No chance to modify quantity or side, or the combo setup.
    • Position management -
      • after execution on the interface you no longer see the combo position. It's broken into pieces
      • No place to download trade executions, as you would from the interactive broker's flex report interface. I would imagine for larger and numerous positions, traders would have to rely on their own software (home made API clients or an OMS app) in order to journal the trades. 

Support is okay for a small firm. The turnaround for my technical questions is about 24 hours. But when their system had issues - Tradier backend was not responsive to order modification for half-hour on 2nd day of my trading after market open, they did not send notification or display the issue on their web. A broker had to help me change the order on the phone.

Overall, I don't think one can rely on Tradier as a brokerage alone. But with appropriate software or tools, it's a worthwhile broker for some of SO trades to help with commissions.

TradeHawk is an excellent platform for use with Tradier.  Also, I have only seen pass through commissions on Index option orders and nothing on equity option orders.  I agree, execution is as good as or better than other brokers I have used (OptionsXpress, IB, TD and TradeMomster/Options House).

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On 7/28/2017 at 0:50 AM, SBatch said:

TradeHawk is an excellent platform for use with Tradier.  Also, I have only seen pass through commissions on Index option orders and nothing on equity option orders.  I agree, execution is as good as or better than other brokers I have used (OptionsXpress, IB, TD and TradeMomster/Options House).

Do I understand correctly TradeHawk platform costs $299/mo if we want to trade options?

At least that is what Tradier web page states:

https://brokerage.tradier.com/platforms/tradehawk

 

Maybe a bit too much to pay $40/mo for brokerage + $299/mo for the platform (no brokerage commissions can compensate for that if the account is large enough, but..). OptionNet looks more attractive, however, I can guess their integration with Tradier is not that good (ONE can only send orders to broker and does not automatically gets real fills back, at least with IB it so. And I believe I read in this thread Tradier integration is currently at the same state).

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2 hours ago, Stanislav said:

Do I understand correctly TradeHawk platform costs $299/mo if we want to trade options?

At least that is what Tradier web page states:

https://brokerage.tradier.com/platforms/tradehawk

 

Maybe a bit too much to pay $40/mo for brokerage + $299/mo for the platform (no brokerage commissions can compensate for that if the account is large enough, but..). OptionNet looks more attractive, however, I can guess their integration with Tradier is not that good (ONE can only send orders to broker and does not automatically gets real fills back, at least with IB it so. And I believe I read in this thread Tradier integration is currently at the same state).

Customers do not also have to pay the $40 Steady Options fee if they subscribe to TradeHawk, just the $298 monthly TradeHawk fee which includes unlimited commission free stock and option trades. TradeHawk is fully integrated with Tradier whereas ONE is not, it remains very disconnected for much of the data.

Edited by SBatch

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You get what you pay for.

IB has more of a proven track record....ALL things considered, above the rest!

That is why, after all of the floors closed down, the professional floor traders all went to IB.

Tradier is a low rent operation for , newbie retail traders looking to save a buck.

 

If the only thing you are looking at is commissions, then you are thinking small!

Edited by cuegis

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7 hours ago, cuegis said:

You get what you pay for.

IB has more of a proven track record....ALL things considered, above the rest!

That is why, after all of the floors closed down, the professional floor traders all went to IB.

Tradier is a low rent operation for , newbie retail traders looking to save a buck.

 

If the only thing you are looking at is commissions, then you are thinking small!

As for me, currently I use IB. I understand your point. The facts are:

As reported in this thread, execution times and overall order routing quality between IB and Tradier seems to be the same.

 

pros:

* Commissions. Tradier can save tons of money we spend on commissions;

* REST API in Tradier is much much better than that in IB. TWS API is a pain to work with;

* No intermediate platform in-between compared to ONE -> TWS -> IB Server;

* We can choose a platform that is fully integrated with the broker, unlike ONE / IB which only capable of sending orders to IB and nothing more (and I am not a big fan or using TWS directly to place option orders). So, trading process in Tradier can be more convenient.

 

cons:

* No Portfolio Margin at Tradier;

* Native Tradier Web interface does not group option legs together in any way;

* As far as I understand, currently they only allow to trade stocks and options on stocks, EFT's and indexes. So the range of tradeable products is quite limited;

* Tradier is a new broker, without historical track record. So reliability and security issues is not fully known at this point.

 

So, right now I would not rush to open an account at Tradier (actually I can not, since I am not US Citizen). But I watch them closely. For me modern REST API alone is a big plus - if it allows me to easily write scripts to scan for some patterns in options, and there is no limitation of 100 simultaneous realtime tickers as in IB (need to investigate this further), I may consider opening a small account in Tradier to take advantage of their API.

 

Edited by Stanislav

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12 hours ago, SBatch said:

Customers do not also have to pay the $40 Steady Options fee if they subscribe to TradeHawk, just the $298 monthly TradeHawk fee which includes unlimited commission free stock and option trades. TradeHawk is fully integrated with Tradier whereas ONE is not, it remains very disconnected for much of the data.

Just curious, can you please elaborate on "ONE remains very disconnected for much of the data". I know Tradier does not translate RUT index, and that makes ONE crazy when trading RUT. But that is an issue with Tradier, not with ONE. Also ONE does not receive and add order fills to its Trade Log from the broker automatically. That is how ONE currently designed. Any more issues when using ONE with Tradier?

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2 hours ago, Stanislav said:

As for me, currently I use IB. I understand your point. The facts are:

As reported in this thread, execution times and overall order routing quality between IB and Tradier seems to be the same.

 

pros:

* Commissions. Tradier can save tons of money we spend on commissions;

* REST API in Tradier is much much better than that in IB. TWS API is a pain to work with;

* No intermediate platform in-between compared to ONE -> TWS -> IB Server;

* We can choose a platform that is fully integrated with the broker, unlike ONE / IB which only capable of sending orders to IB and nothing more (and I am not a big fan or using TWS directly to place option orders). So, trading process in Tradier can be more convenient.

 

cons:

* No Portfolio Margin at Tradier;

* Native Tradier Web interface does not group option legs together in any way;

* As far as I understand, currently they only allow to trade stocks and options on stocks, EFT's and indexes. So the range of tradeable products is quite limited;

* Tradier is a new broker, without historical track record. So reliability and security issues is not fully known at this point.

 

So, right now I would not rush to open an account at Tradier (actually I can not, since I am not US Citizen). But I watch them closely. For me modern REST API alone is a big plus - if it allows me to easily write scripts to scan for some patterns in options, and there is no limitation of 100 simultaneous realtime tickers as in IB (need to investigate this further), I may consider opening a small account in Tradier to take advantage of their API.

 

@Stanislav - Like you I am not a US citizen or US Permanent Resident. You conclude your post with "I may consider opening a small account in Tradier to take advantage of their API.". Just curious, how would you open an account ?

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2 minutes ago, 4REAL said:

@Stanislav - Like you I am not a US citizen or US Permanent Resident. You conclude your post with "I may consider opening a small account in Tradier to take advantage of their API.". Just curious, how would you open an account ?

I mean I am going to consider opening account at Tradier when they add support for International Accounts. Not right now. I already wrote them a letter yesterday asking if they have any plans and a roadmap to add International Accounts. When they reply I'll post their answer there.

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24 minutes ago, Stanislav said:

I mean I am going to consider opening account at Tradier when they add support for International Accounts. Not right now. I already wrote them a letter yesterday asking if they have any plans and a roadmap to add International Accounts. When they reply I'll post their answer there.

Here is what Tradier support answered me regarding International accounts. Seems they already do provide International Accounts on a case-by-case basis:

Quote

 

Tradier Brokerage is now offering some international accounts on a case-by-case basis.  The minimum to open an international account is $10,000. 

 

 

If you would like to apply for an international account, here is a link to DocuSign where you can complete the paperwork.

 

 

Individual

 

Joint

 

If you are applying for options trading, please also review the attached link below regarding characteristics and risks of standardized options and let us know if you have any questions at all.

 

 

Characteristics and Risks of Standardized Options

 

 

Let us know if you have any questions at all.

 

 

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18 hours ago, cuegis said:

You get what you pay for.

IB has more of a proven track record....ALL things considered, above the rest!

That is why, after all of the floors closed down, the professional floor traders all went to IB.

Tradier is a low rent operation for , newbie retail traders looking to save a buck.

 

If the only thing you are looking at is commissions, then you are thinking small!

I am a full time options trader.  This is how I earn my living, as such I clearly am not "thinking small" nor am I a "newbie" as I have been trading options for over ten years.  Your constant closed minded stance to any other broker besides IB does nothing to further this discussion.  I traded with IB for five years, have you ever traded with Tradier?  The answer is no and therefore you are in no position to compare the two.  After trading with both (as well as OptionsXpress, TOS, Lightspeed and Options House) I am able to make comparisons based upon experience not closed minded speculation.  That experience when taking into consideration cost, technology and execution reveals that Tradier is by far the superior offering for US residents that trade a high volume of option contracts.  Increasing one's returns by as much as 20% per year is a distinct possibility for the high volume/professional  trader. This is the exact opposite of "thinking small."

Edited by SBatch

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3 hours ago, Stanislav said:

Just curious, can you please elaborate on "ONE remains very disconnected for much of the data". I know Tradier does not translate RUT index, and that makes ONE crazy when trading RUT. But that is an issue with Tradier, not with ONE. Also ONE does not receive and add order fills to its Trade Log from the broker automatically. That is how ONE currently designed. Any more issues when using ONE with Tradier?

I was referring to the order issue and I am not certain but I also do not believe ONE has an active portfolio position's window (but I could be wrong on that).  With TradeHawk there is no need to also move to the Tradier interface as everything is available within TradeHawk so it runs seamlessly.

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@SBatch, does Tradier provide something similar to Interactive Brokers Reports \ Activity \ Statements \ Realized Summary report? And if so, in which formats (I mainly need PDF for official report for a local tax regulator and CSV for my own processing). In IB I use this report to calculate my taxes. Since I am not US Citizen, I can not use standard US tax forms.

And I need a report with columns for each trade: Open Date, Symbol, Realized P/L (including brokerage and pass through commissions). In IB their Realized Summary report does provide these details. I wonder if there is something similar in Tradier?

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25 minutes ago, Stanislav said:

@SBatch, does Tradier provide something similar to Interactive Brokers Reports \ Activity \ Statements \ Realized Summary report? And if so, in which formats (I mainly need PDF for official report for a local tax regulator and CSV for my own processing). In IB I use this report to calculate my taxes. Since I am not US Citizen, I can not use standard US tax forms.

And I need a report with columns for each trade: Open Date, Symbol, Realized P/L (including brokerage and pass through commissions). In IB their Realized Summary report does provide these details. I wonder if there is something similar in Tradier?

No, one does not have the ability to generate that type of report.  All monthly account statements and tax documents are provided by their clearing firm Apex.  They provide a combined 1099 as well as a 1042-s for foreign clients. There is also an active gain/loss log that can be easily exported to Excel. 

Edited by SBatch

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You are able to download transactions directly from Apex.  I do this through TradeLog, which is what I use for trading tax accounting.  You can also do a Quicken export.  Within the website, you can display activity and export it as a CSV, which includes the columns:  

Type Trade Date Settle Date Symbol Description Trade Action Qty Price Net Amount

 

 

In addition, you can get PDFs of confirmations (daily summaries of executed trades), as well as monthly PDF statements.  Both include trade details.

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14 minutes ago, ChadK said:

You are able to download transactions directly from Apex.  I do this through TradeLog, which is what I use for trading tax accounting.  You can also do a Quicken export.  Within the website, you can display activity and export it as a CSV, which includes the columns:  

Type Trade Date Settle Date Symbol Description Trade Action Qty Price Net Amount

 

 

In addition, you can get PDFs of confirmations (daily summaries of executed trades), as well as monthly PDF statements.  Both include trade details.

Yes, a number of third party software vendors are compatible with Apex, but this cannot be done with a Tradier account alone, correct?  Or can it be done directly with Apex?

Edited by SBatch

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 @SBatch,  @ChadK, thanks very much for your answers!

13 minutes ago, ChadK said:

You are able to download transactions directly from Apex.  I do this through TradeLog, which is what I use for trading tax accounting.  You can also do a Quicken export.  Within the website, you can display activity and export it as a CSV, which includes the columns:  

Type Trade Date Settle Date Symbol Description Trade Action Qty Price Net Amount

 

As far as I understand the Quicken export report only contains Qty/Price information per trade. So if I open a trade and then close it, there will be two lines in the report. And I has myself to figure out Realized P/L for the trade. That maybe the way to solve the problem, but I've took a look at Tradier API. And found they have an API to receive a gain/loss per trade for given account. So far, the description of the API looks very promising:

https://developer.tradier.com/documentation/accounts/get-account-gainloss

The result contains gain_loss field, as well as open_date, close_date, symbol for each trade.

Overall, seems like it is possible to solve tax accounting task in Tradier, and there are multiple ways to do it. I've also contacted Tradier support to see what they can tell me on the issue.

 

P.S. I took a look at Tradier REST API, and absolutely love it! Withing 2 minutes after registration in a Developer Sandbox I was able to receive delayed quotes for stocks using a sample Python script. The API is clean, easy, and very modern. Unlike the one in IB.

 

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19 minutes ago, Stanislav said:

 @SBatch,  @ChadK, thanks very much for your answers!

As far as I understand the Quicken export report only contains Qty/Price information per trade. So if I open a trade and then close it, there will be two lines in the report. And I has myself to figure out Realized P/L for the trade. That maybe the way to solve the problem, but I've took a look at Tradier API. And found they have an API to receive a gain/loss per trade for given account. So far, the description of the API looks very promising:

https://developer.tradier.com/documentation/accounts/get-account-gainloss

The result contains gain_loss field, as well as open_date, close_date, symbol for each trade.

Overall, seems like it is possible to solve tax accounting task in Tradier, and there are multiple ways to do it. I've also contacted Tradier support to see what they can tell me on the issue.

 

P.S. I took a look at Tradier REST API, and absolutely love it! Withing 2 minutes after registration in a Developer Sandbox I was able to receive delayed quotes for stocks using a sample Python script. The API is clean, easy, and very modern. Unlike the one in IB.

 

The Gain/Loss log within Tradier provides a full P&L.  It can be copied and pasted into Excel for manipulation.  Here are the columns:

 

Gain Loss

Symbol Quantity Cost Proceeds G/L ($) G/L (%) Close Date Term

 

I also just discovered that a custom date range P&L PDF can be created in the Apex website.  Thanks @ChadK for the heads up.

Edited by SBatch

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8 minutes ago, SBatch said:

Yes, a number of third party software vendors are compatible with Apex, but this cannot be done with a Tradier account alone, correct?  Or can it be done directly with Apex?

Directly in the Apex website.

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Has anyone tried to open a Roth IRA or other type of IRA at Tradier for Options Trading? Right now it seems to have some disadvantages relative to IB after testing it out for a day. They do offer the same $40 per month deal but...

Every trade seems to need to be cash secured...the buying power rules seem to be weird and ALWAYS protected for assignment. Limiting losses with spreads like put spreads, call spreads, iron condors, or calendars seems to make no difference in how they compute buying power. This seems to make the straddle/short strangle approach we use less viable, as well as calendars. All of these trades may need to be done in an IRA account with limited margin, like IB.

Just sticking to long straddles and there may be some benefit.

I'm thinking about dividing my options IRA money between IB and Tradier, and using IB for condors/calendars as well as straddle/SStrangle combos, and using Tradier for straight straddle plays. I may just have to watch the straddle/short strangle positions on here until later and enter about a week before earnings...

Has anyone else run into this issue and found a solution? I apologize if this has been answered before. 

 

edit...maybe it's just a question of level 3 options... i've read they approve it for IRAs but we'll see

Edited by DrBG

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On 7/31/2017 at 7:35 PM, cuegis said:

Commodities!

By the way, I contacted Tradier support and asked whether they have plans to implement Portfolio Margin and options on futures and commodities in the near future. Their answer was that they do not have any plans to offer Portfolio Margin in the near future. Also Tradier do not have any plans to offer trading in futures or commodities options at the current time.

So, they position themselves as a Reg-T broker with only stocks/ETFs/indexes options. That means we have to keep our IB account in order to trade commodities.

 

Edited by Stanislav

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16 hours ago, DrBG said:

Has anyone tried to open a Roth IRA or other type of IRA at Tradier for Options Trading?

...

Has anyone else run into this issue and found a solution? I apologize if this has been answered before. 

 

edit...maybe it's just a question of level 3 options... i've read they approve it for IRAs but we'll see

 

Yes, you need to fill out these forms for each account:

 

Options: https://na3.docusign.net/member/PowerFormSigning.aspx?PowerFormId=bb46286a-001c-46ff-a18e-ffcf80b34151

Limited Margin: https://na3.docusign.net/member/PowerFormSigning.aspx?PowerFormId=b48a705c-4981-40a7-b7a1-6f5ee28f4e14

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9 hours ago, Stanislav said:

By the way, I contacted Tradier support and asked whether they have plans to implement Portfolio Margin and options on futures and commodities in the near future. Their answer was that they do not ...

 

 

Is Portfolio Margin different than "regular" margin?

 

I have margin buying power on my taxable account at Tradier, though not my IRA's.

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On 7/27/2017 at 5:50 PM, SBatch said:

TradeHawk is an excellent platform for use with Tradier.  Also, I have only seen pass through commissions on Index option orders and nothing on equity option orders.  I agree, execution is as good as or better than other brokers I have used (OptionsXpress, IB, TD and TradeMomster/Options House).

Does TradeHawk offer support for Options on Futures/Futures positions? Do they also integrate with Interactive Brokers? If not, there may be an advantage for whenever Optionnet Explorer incorporates some support for monitoring P/L for futures on options positions (whenever that will be), even if the execution prices have to be entered manually.

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1 minute ago, DrBG said:

Does TradeHawk offer support for Options on Futures/Futures positions? Do they also integrate with Interactive Brokers? If not, there may be an advantage for whenever Optionnet Explorer incorporates some support for monitoring P/L for futures on options positions (whenever that will be), even if the execution prices have to be entered manually.

Tradier only offers equities and equity and index options (no futures) and TradeHawk only integrates with Tradier at this time.

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1 hour ago, Noah Katz said:

 

Is Portfolio Margin different than "regular" margin?

 

I have margin buying power on my taxable account at Tradier, though not my IRA's.

Portfolio Margin is different than Reg-T margin. With Portfolio Margin they calculate the risk of the overall portfolio, resulting in significantly lower margin requirements in some cases. Professionals often use Portfolio Margin to most effectively deploy their capital. Usually Portfolio Margin is available for large accounts (starting from $100k or so). See also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portfolio_margin

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2 minutes ago, Noah Katz said:

Good info, thanks

While answering your question I dug a litter dipper and found Portfolio Margin only offsets positions in ETFs and Indexes when margin requirements are calculated. Single Stock positions never offset each other. So if one only uses Steady Options strategies for earnings plays, it virtually makes no difference whether Portfolio Margin or Reg-T margin is in use.

Actually Interactive Brokers with Portfolio Margin requires more margin for option calendar trades then Reg-T margin requirements are (they are a bit paranoid in with calendars).

Here is the article explaining Portfolio Margin Offsets.

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