Tradier Brokerage Special Offer

[skydragon 51]

9 hours ago, Suresh Kampalli said:

Hmmm... that's disappointing. So, Tradier's all much ado about nothing.

Well, IMHO I don't think I would be *that* harsh on Tradier.  The SO deal with them is a great money saver, depending on your trading habits. 

   If you looking for low-cost, mobile platform then you might also take a look at Tastyworks.  I'm not sure about trading futures there - I've never tried it for that.

[SureTrader 40]

I am already using TW. They do provide options on futures and some commodities but charting is bad. Mobile app is alright.

[skydragon 51]

4 hours ago, Suresh Kampalli said:

I am already using TW. They do provide options on futures and some commodities but charting is bad. Mobile app is alright.

@Suresh Kampalli I agree with you that TW's charts are lacking.  I've also noticed other aspects of their interface that I think could be better.

     Taking a broader view, I haven't found a broker or service yet that does it all for me.  I currently have accounts open, some with stagnant minimal amounts, at a handful of brokers (and other service providers) to take advantage of the features I like at each.  Some get most of my trades, while others I use mostly for their research tools, etc.  It's annoying, but it's the best I've come up with for now.

[SureTrader 40]

I came across two brokerages 1. Firstrade and 2. Hrtrader. Both have mobile apps and $0 commissions. Hrtrader needs a minimum of $30K to open and monthly $25 flat fee OR total free if you have 50K daily margin and EOD free cash plus 50 trades mo.

Anyone has experience with them? The reviews on both are average but want to know if someone has real experience.

[David_H 62]

Question to anyone using TradeHawk/Tradier combination: I tried to place SPXW Jan 31 iron butterfly order at the same time for the same strikes in TradeHawk and Etrade and the credit amount was different significantly (51.00 vs 53.30). Then I noticed that SPXW quote on TradeHawk is actually delayed. It doesn't match with the one from ETrade. Then I compared quotes from Yahoo and TradeHawk is really delayed. 

Then I went ahead and put the same limit order in both accounts and the on Etrade filled for the same credit but the one TradeHawk is not filling even if I lower the amount of credit to 52.5

Anyone noticed this with TradeHawk? It seems like this is the issue with SPX only since I compared other stock quotes and they matched.

[cuegis 683]

1 hour ago, Seth H said:

Question to anyone using TradeHawk/Tradier combination: I tried to place SPXW Jan 31 iron butterfly order at the same time for the same strikes in TradeHawk and Etrade and the credit amount was different significantly (51.00 vs 53.30). Then I noticed that SPXW quote on TradeHawk is actually delayed. It doesn't match with the one from ETrade. Then I compared quotes from Yahoo and TradeHawk is really delayed. 

Then I went ahead and put the same limit order in both accounts and the on Etrade filled for the same credit but the one TradeHawk is not filling even if I lower the amount of credit to 52.5

Anyone noticed this with TradeHawk? It seems like this is the issue with SPX only since I compared other stock quotes and they matched.

Sometimes you have to specify SPXW from SPX. At least in IB there is a dropdown box where that is done.

[David_H 62]

1 hour ago, cuegis said:

Sometimes you have to specify SPXW from SPX. At least in IB there is a dropdown box where that is done.

Yes I did specify SPXW. I was able to talk to customer rep. and he said their index data is delayed but option prices are live. But I still don't understand why ETrade can fill the same order for 53.30 credit but the order TradeHawk is sitting there even after I lowered it to 52.5 (and the mid values are not the same even if the rep. says option prices are live)

 Looks like I should avoid trading indexes on TradeHawk and do SPY only. 

[cuegis 683]

23 minutes ago, Seth H said:

Yes I did specify SPXW. I was able to talk to customer rep. and he said their index data is delayed but option prices are live. But I still don't understand why ETrade can fill the same order for 53.30 credit but the order TradeHawk is sitting there even after I lowered it to 52.5 (and the mid values are not the same even if the rep. says option prices are live)

 Looks like I should avoid trading indexes on TradeHawk and do SPY only. 

Using SPY would be one way of a workaround.

It has the most liquidity.

But, if you are trading larger sizes it isn't cost effective because you have to do 10 to equal 1 SPX.

 

I like using ES because , along with excellent liquidity, I like to have access 23 hours a day.

Time = money and opportunity, and 23 hours vs 6 1/2 hours is a real advantage.

 

I don't know if your broker has access to ES and/or if it is live.

 

For some delayed quotes, if you just want to know where the underlying is, as a reference point, you can google up some other sites, like yahoo and others, that will show live quotes so that you at least know what is going on in real time.

[CJ912 136]

Has anybody opted fro the Tradier + ONE deal?  Access to the OptionNET Explorer and commission free equity and option trading for $95. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. 

[davidc 0]

I had no luck with Tradier because they don't accept Australians. They also said no to Canadians (my wife's Canadian) and the UK:  

No, we cannot open accounts for the UK, Canada and Australia.

It's not easy finding a brokerage from Australia, IB only allow cash accounts (no margin) for individuals. 

[Kim 8,035]

2 minutes ago, davidc said:

I had no luck with Tradier because they don't accept Australians. They also said no to Canadians (my wife's Canadian) and the UK:  

No, we cannot open accounts for the UK, Canada and Australia.

It's not easy finding a brokerage from Australia, IB only allow cash accounts (no margin) for individuals. 

If your wife is Canadian, why not IB?

[davidc 0]

1 minute ago, Kim said:

If your wife is Canadian, why not IB?

Good point, I've been holding off because we are moving to Canada in late January and we will have an address there then. 

[Javier 99]

Awesome, They had no problems with Spanish. Maybe Brexit 😉

[Arthur 32]

Does anyone know how Tradier handles margin breaches (e.g. after an assignment)? Do they issue a margin call and let you add cash to your account, or do they just auto-liquidate after 10 minutes like IB?

I am currently with IB and their forced liquidation policy makes me nervous. Every time the short leg of my spread moves ITM I have the feeling that I am playing with fire.

[cuegis 683]

3 hours ago, Arthur said:

Does anyone know how Tradier handles margin breaches (e.g. after an assignment)? Do they issue a margin call and let you add cash to your account, or do they just auto-liquidate after 10 minutes like IB?

I am currently with IB and their forced liquidation policy makes me nervous. Every time the short leg of my spread moves ITM I have the feeling that I am playing with fire.

Don't get overly worried about the short leg of a spread... as long as it has time premium in it, nobody is going to exercise it..

The only time to start getting concerned is if it becomes VERY deep ITM and there is no time premium left.

But if it just starts to go slightly ITM, you may be getting worried for no reason.

If it is a call that is deep ITM, then compare the time value of that option to the dividend on the stock, and when the next ex-dividend date is.

[ex3y7s 149]

To those who have played with the Tradier API: can I create an order using it but not place it until I've verified it in Tradier's web UI? One of the things I love about IB is that I can programmatically submit an order using their API with "transmit: false" and the order shows up in TWS but isn't live yet. I can then verify the strikes/price looks correct and place and adjust the price using the TWS UI.

Is this an option with Tradier? I notice their docs mention preview order functionality, but it's unclear to me if that will actually show up in their UI or not. I could potentially implement a hack where I submit orders with prices that won't allow them to fill (e.g. buy for nothing or sell for a very large amount), but even that makes me pretty nervous in the event I've gotten the strikes wrong. Thanks for any insight!

[ex3y7s 149]

23 hours ago, ex3y7s said:

To those who have played with the Tradier API: can I create an order using it but not place it until I've verified it in Tradier's web UI? One of the things I love about IB is that I can programmatically submit an order using their API with "transmit: false" and the order shows up in TWS but isn't live yet. I can then verify the strikes/price looks correct and place and adjust the price using the TWS UI.

Is this an option with Tradier? I notice their docs mention preview order functionality, but it's unclear to me if that will actually show up in their UI or not. I could potentially implement a hack where I submit orders with prices that won't allow them to fill (e.g. buy for nothing or sell for a very large amount), but even that makes me pretty nervous in the event I've gotten the strikes wrong. Thanks for any insight!

Following up and answering my own question here, it turns out you can actually just open a url with some appropriate query parameters in it and it will prepopulate the order fields in their UI: https://developer.tradier.com/documentation/overview/trade-link. Not bad!

[David_H 62]

For those of you using Tradier, have you been seeing a lot of your closed position Gains/Losses designated as a Wash Sale on Apex Clearing? I am always tracking my P/L using the Cost Basis report from Apex and there are too many Wash Sale positions and as a result, some trades are shown as closed for a loss, like our recent FB RIC. 

Any thoughts? Has this wash sale issue been discussed somewhere? 

[Arthur 32]

On 12/24/2018 at 11:40 AM, Arthur said:

Does anyone know how Tradier handles margin breaches (e.g. after an assignment)? Do they issue a margin call and let you add cash to your account, or do they just auto-liquidate after 10 minutes like IB?

I am currently with IB and their forced liquidation policy makes me nervous. Every time the short leg of my spread moves ITM I have the feeling that I am playing with fire.

@krisbee @SBatch Do you guys have experience with Tradier margin calls?

[SBatch 2,676]

14 minutes ago, Arthur said:

@krisbee @SBatch Do you guys have experience with Tradier margin calls?

Yes - most often it is an issue with Apex calculating incorrect margin on spreads.  They are extremely understanding.  If it is a true margin call they will give you a full three days to liquidate your account or deposit cash to bring into compliance.

[urfiend 8]

21 hours ago, SBatch said:

Yes - most often it is an issue with Apex calculating incorrect margin on spreads.  They are extremely understanding.  If it is a true margin call they will give you a full three days to liquidate your account or deposit cash to bring into compliance.

Do you have experienc how (tradier, tradestation, IB) they handle assigned calendar or diagonal spreads?

From the risk side nothing has changed to before assignment but now you are short on buying power.

I had a long diagonal on uvxy on xmas with a positive spread of 10 hedging my short position and so far succesfully saclping the theta decay but tradestation liquidated my short stock despite the hedge long calls. Being short in buing power I could not buy back the stock and sell another call even though I knew it would just bei a short lived spike.

I did not get assigned on tradier so I do not know how they would have handled it.

If you have to just buy back the options you might miss out on the underlying moving back to your long position.

Do the let you buy back the short stock and sell the same strike with e.g. further expiration even if you are short in buying power due to the assigned short stock?

Thank you for your experience and advice

[SBatch 2,676]

4 hours ago, urfiend said:

Do you have experienc how (tradier, tradestation, IB) they handle assigned calendar or diagonal spreads?

From the risk side nothing has changed to before assignment but now you are short on buying power.

I had a long diagonal on uvxy on xmas with a positive spread of 10 hedging my short position and so far succesfully saclping the theta decay but tradestation liquidated my short stock despite the hedge long calls. Being short in buing power I could not buy back the stock and sell another call even though I knew it would just bei a short lived spike.

I did not get assigned on tradier so I do not know how they would have handled it.

If you have to just buy back the options you might miss out on the underlying moving back to your long position.

Do the let you buy back the short stock and sell the same strike with e.g. further expiration even if you are short in buying power due to the assigned short stock?

Thank you for your experience and advice

I do not have experience under this scenario. 

[SBatch 2,676]

Special offer from Tradier coming soon for Creating Alpha subscribers.  Stay tuned!

[ocr008 12]

How about .65 no ticket fee on

TOS  I am trying let me know tomorrow 

[Noah Katz 90]

2 hours ago, SBatch said:

Special offer from Tradier coming soon for Creating Alpha subscribers.  Stay tuned!

 

Wondering what it could offer that's competitive with free trades at Firstrade, except perhaps for a better UI...

[David_H 62]

14 minutes ago, Noah Katz said:

 

Wondering what it could offer that's competitive with free trades at Firstrade, except perhaps for a better UI...

I tried Firstrade and it does not have Real Time quotes for option values. You have to manually keep refreshing to see the bid/ask.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Seth H

[Noah Katz 90]

10 minutes ago, Seth H said:

I tried Firstrade and it does not have Real Time quotes for option values. You have to manually keep refreshing to see the bid/ask.

 

Well that's lame; thanks

[ocr008 12]

.65 at TOS

[anand331 138]

16 hours ago, SBatch said:

Special offer from Tradier coming soon for Creating Alpha subscribers.  Stay tuned!

Hi @SBatch, is this offer going to be better than the SO offer?

[SBatch 2,676]

2 hours ago, anand331 said:

Hi @SBatch, is this offer going to be better than the SO offer?

Yes.

[anand331 138]

Just now, SBatch said:

Yes.

Thanks @SBatch

[trader212 37]

Is there an ETA for the rollout of this offer (I'm just about to start negotiating with them)?

 

[SBatch 2,676]

Just now, anand331 said:

Thanks @SBatch

You’re welcome.  The offer is going to be very strong.  Announcement coming on Monday.

[ex3y7s 149]

Will existing customers using the SO offer be able to switch?

[SBatch 2,676]

1 minute ago, trader212 said:

Is there an ETA for the rollout of this offer (I'm just about to start negotiating with them)?

 

Announcement on Monday of details and roll out date.

[SBatch 2,676]

Just now, ex3y7s said:

Will existing customers using the SO offer be able to switch?

Yes, as long as they are members of Creating Alpha (including bundle members).

[zoxi2018 3]

@ocr008 Did you mean you negotiated  the .65 no ticket at TOS? 

[ocr008 12]

Yes 

[Spread 21]

@ocr008 May I ask how much volume (transactions) you have at TOS to get rates like these ? 

[ocr008 12]

Just the trades we make at SO

[aircal 2]

I called TOS - not TDA - and showed them the year end summary from my IB account that showed I paid $700 in commissions at .70 per contract. I also mentioned I turned 59.5 a year later at would be looking for a brokerage for my $500K 401(k). I provided a year summary for that account as well.

They gave me .75 no ticket.

[Spread 21]

Thx for the tip, I'll check my statement for the yearly paided commission and give them a call

[ex3y7s 149]

Just discovered today that Tradier doesn't offset one wing of a BWB against the other when calculating margin requirements. In the position below the max loss is $500 minus the credit received but Tradier is showing a margin requirement of $1000 minus the credit.

[SBatch 2,676]

30 minutes ago, ex3y7s said:

Just discovered today that Tradier doesn't offset one wing of a BWB against the other when calculating margin requirements. In the position below the max loss is $500 minus the credit received but Tradier is showing a margin requirement of $1000 minus the credit.

The trade desk will manually update your buying power when this happens.  This is an Apex issue that is being worked on.

[ex3y7s 149]

1 minute ago, SBatch said:

The trade desk will manually update your buying power when this happens.  This is an Apex issue that is being worked on.

Awesome--I just sent them an email so I will update when I hear back. Their support has been wonderfully responsive in the past.

[David_H 62]

4 minutes ago, ex3y7s said:

Awesome--I just sent them an email so I will update when I hear back. Their support has been wonderfully responsive in the past.

Why don't you try iron bwb? 1 call and 1 put spread.

[ex3y7s 149]

Just got the following response from Tradier's Director of Operations:

 

That is not the way in which our system does the calculation at the current time.  It only looks at the maximum requirement on each of the spreads and based the total requirement on that.  There is the possibility that our clearing firm looks at it the way that you are expecting and if so, you will get back some of the requirements overnight tonight.

 

That makes it sound like a Tradier issue rather than an Apex one. I'll update if my buying power is updated overnight.

Edited January 28, 2019 by ex3y7s

[SBatch 2,676]

Creating Alpha's Tradier/TradeHawk bundle is now available!

https://steadyoptions.com/forums/forum/topic/5165-creating-alphas-tradiertradehawk-bundle-package/

[aircal 2]

Isn't the SO Tradier/Tradehawk deal less - $109 vs $119?

or am I missing something?

[SBatch 2,676]

6 hours ago, aircal said:

Isn't the SO Tradier/Tradehawk deal less - $109 vs $119?

or am I missing something?

The $109 charge cannot be eliminated based upon contracts traded whereas the $119 can. Therefore, for someone that does low volume trading and is also a member of SO (something not required for the CA offer) the new plan may not be better.  However, for everyone else it will be superior.