Welcome to SteadyVol

[SBatch 2,951]

58 minutes ago, jroback said:

Looks like those of us on ToS will move to a zero-commission structure when accounts move to Schwab. Should be more equivalent to the package that Tradier offers. Time will tell whether fills and customer service get worse with that change, however. 

Fills will always be the same with all brokers as VIX options only trade on the CBOE. Schwab is a very good company IMO.

[Infineo 24]

1 hour ago, jroback said:

Looks like those of us on ToS will move to a zero-commission structure when accounts move to Schwab. Should be more equivalent to the package that Tradier offers. Time will tell whether fills and customer service get worse with that change, however. 

Hmmm...Unless I am missing something, I don't see any change with TOS to Schwab move. On TOS its $0 commission for option trade + .65 per contract. It's the same on Schwab. I did contact TDAmeritrade in the past for a better price and they reduced it to .50 per contract for me. Hopefully that stays when my account is moved. 

I am going to reach out to them again and see if they can get it somewhere close to .40 cents because I see Tradier is .35 per contract.  
Doing some calculations on my end, I think Tradier is cheaper even with the $10 monthly fee + the contract prices compared to what I am paying for TOS. 

[Bullfighter 292]

I moved a small portion from my TOS portfolio margin account to Firstrade and my fills are comparable for the same VIX structures in both platforms. It takes seconds to setup a trade in TOS, while Firstrade is painful. For a non-frequent trade like Steadyvol it is worth it. For something more frequent or more sophisticated, specially if the fee is a much smaller percentage of the profit, I will stick with TOS.

[kirkr1517 108]

On 3/28/2024 at 8:09 AM, Kim said:

Honestly, I don't really understand why people don't switch to Tradier. Zero commissions, one of the lowest VIX fees, excellent customer service, competitive execution etc. If I wasn't in Canada, I would switch a long time ago.

I signed up for Tradier, so zero commission cost and either $.35 or $.10 for VIX will hopefully make the SteadyVol an option for me.  So with Tradier, does anyone know what the commission impact would be on performance?  Sorry to ask but I don't have the SteadyVol subscription, so I can't tell for sure what the impact would be.

[kaush 0]

@SBatch @KimI have been using Fidelity for trading SteadyVol for the past 3 months as I have been testing out the service. Paying a lot in commissions so want to lower them now because I also want to utilize SteadyYield. Should I go with Tradier or FirstTrade?

Seeing 0.35 on Tradier's website - does the pro account have an option to lower the fees to 0.10 if I email them? And what is the fee structure with FirstTrade? Do SteadyOptions members get a deal with FirstTrade?

[Darren Dawson 14]

On 3/30/2024 at 11:01 AM, kaush said:

@SBatch @KimI have been using Fidelity for trading SteadyVol for the past 3 months as I have been testing out the service. Paying a lot in commissions so want to lower them now because I also want to utilize SteadyYield. Should I go with Tradier or FirstTrade?

Seeing 0.35 on Tradier's website - does the pro account have an option to lower the fees to 0.10 if I email them? And what is the fee structure with FirstTrade? Do SteadyOptions members get a deal with FirstTrade?

Kaush,

I have some questions for you since you are Fidelity to test drive SteadyVol.

What was the drag in Fidelity for the SteadyVol trades?

What option trading level in Fidelity do you need to have for the SteadyVol trade?

Thanks

Darren

[kaush 0]

@DarrenWhat do you mean by drag exactly? Quite new to this so don't understand all the technical terms.

 

I had to get Tier 3 at Fidelity; they only allow it on one account at a time so open a new account and request Tier 3 on that account if you want to keep your stocks and options purchases separate.

I just opened FirstTrade and applied for Tier 4 and was approved within 2 days. I plan to move some assets there to do both SteadyVol and SteadyYield.

[kaush 0]

1 minute ago, kaush said:

@DarrenWhat do you mean by drag exactly? Quite new to this so don't understand all the technical terms.

 

I had to get Tier 3 at Fidelity; they only allow it on one account at a time so open a new account and request Tier 3 on that account if you want to keep your stocks and options purchases separate.

I just opened FirstTrade and applied for Tier 4 and was approved within 2 days. I plan to move some assets there to do both SteadyVol and SteadyYield.

Just read about drag. I honestly cannot answer this because I did not look. I try to make the trades as quickly as possible upon posting and for the most part I have been able to get the same or better price when posted. It does happen that sometimes I do not get it and I have to pay more (or the loss is more when selling) but that's may be 2 out of 10 times in the last 3 months. I also did not place every single trade posted; I missed some because I did not hit the follow button properly on every trade so adjustments were missed and that impacted some returns.

 

So far in 3 months, I have paid $311 in options contract fees to Fidelity (I only have SteadyVol) and I'm in a profit of $1,423 as of today. I think FirstTrade would be much better for me.

[Darren Dawson 14]

6 minutes ago, kaush said:

@DarrenWhat do you mean by drag exactly? Quite new to this so don't understand all the technical terms.

 

I had to get Tier 3 at Fidelity; they only allow it on one account at a time so open a new account and request Tier 3 on that account if you want to keep your stocks and options purchases separate.

I just opened FirstTrade and applied for Tier 4 and was approved within 2 days. I plan to move some assets there to do both SteadyVol and SteadyYield.

Drag - How much were you losing to fees and commissions in Fidelity? Could you give me a rough for idea for the SteadyVol trade?

Do you nee level 3 in Fidelity to do the SteadyVol trade? or can you do it at the Spread Level?

 

 

[kaush 0]

1 minute ago, Darren Dawson said:

Drag - How much were you losing to fees and commissions in Fidelity? Could you give me a rough for idea for the SteadyVol trade?

Do you nee level 3 in Fidelity to do the SteadyVol trade? or can you do it at the Spread Level?

 

 

I think we posted at the same time - So far in 3 months, I have paid $311 in options contract fees to Fidelity (I only have SteadyVol) and I'm in a profit of $1,423 as of today. I think FirstTrade would be much better for me as I would have lost much less in commissions.

I was not able to place one of the trades initially so when I called them they said I need Tier 3 (or level 3). It takes a couple days to get approved. 

[kaush 0]

1 minute ago, kaush said:

I think we posted at the same time - So far in 3 months, I have paid $311 in options contract fees to Fidelity (I only have SteadyVol) and I'm in a profit of $1,423 as of today. I think FirstTrade would be much better for me as I would have lost much less in commissions.

I was not able to place one of the trades initially so when I called them they said I need Tier 3 (or level 3). It takes a couple days to get approved. 

Here's my spreadsheet of trades that I placed this year; you can see all the fees. If you have the time and energy you can likely look up which ones I ended up missing - though I don't think there's an easy table of them like that of SteadyOptions trades.

History_for_Account.csv

[J10 31]

I decided to try the SteadyVol trades with IBKR for myself, reducing commissions by taking an additional long call and foregoing the PCS. It is still very early, but so far it has been profitable. 

[LearPilot 14]

On 4/4/2024 at 8:09 AM, J10 said:

I decided to try the SteadyVol trades with IBKR for myself, reducing commissions by taking an additional long call and foregoing the PCS. It is still very early, but so far it has been profitable. 

Can you give an update? How is it going with IBKR? Is it reasonable with the commissions?

[J10 31]

17 hours ago, LearPilot said:

Can you give an update? How is it going with IBKR? Is it reasonable with the commissions?

Hi,

 

I’ve only been trading it for a short time now, and the strategy doesn’t trade very frequently, so it is still too early for me to draw any real conclusions. After all, I have only completed 2 trades thus far.

 

IBKR commissions are substantial, there’s no doubt about that. Expect to pay around $1.15 per contract (or $2.30 per spread). Commissions will definitely eat a significant chunk of your returns.

 

That being said, I am net positive on the system thus far, despite these high commissions.

 

Edited Friday at 03:25 PM by J10

[falkor 164]

My experience is that trading VIX spreads in IB is slightly cheaper than trading individual legs in isolation. This is a recent fill from yesterday. The per-contract cost turned out to be $1.08. But even at these levels it's true that IB comms will eat into this strategy's profits, as J10 said.

[J10 31]

1 minute ago, falkor said:

My experience is that trading VIX spreads in IB is slightly cheaper than trading individual legs in isolation. This is a recent fill from yesterday. The per-contract cost turned out to be $1.08. But even at these levels it's true that IB comms will eat into this strategy's profits, as J10 said.

Wow, any idea why you're only getting charged $2.1786 per spread? Mine have never been that low.

[Peeyotch 223]

14 minutes ago, J10 said:

Wow, any idea why you're only getting charged $2.1786 per spread? Mine have never been that low.

Depending on your trading volume, you can get per-contract commission charges lower than $0.65 at IB.

[J10 31]

7 minutes ago, Peeyotch said:

Depending on your trading volume, you can get per-contract commission charges lower than $0.65 at IB.

Yes, but the tier below $0.65/contract is a full $0.15 lower ($0.50/contract). If you were on that tier, the price per VIX spread should only be $2 (after factoring in exchange/regulatory/tx/clearing fees)

Edited Friday at 04:02 PM by J10

[Kim 7,560]

[Ashish0490 5]

7 minutes ago, Peeyotch said:

Depending on your trading volume, you can get per-contract commission charges lower than $0.65 at IB.

What are the parameters to get $0.65 at IB? I am also being charged higher. Any useful links/information will be appreciated. 

[falkor 164]

I can assure you I do not trade anything close to 10,000 contracts per month. Also worth noting, there is a 9% VAT/GST in my jurisdiction, which is why the amount comes to something like $1.09 or $2.18. Likely the underlying cost is $1.00 per contract.

[J10 31]

Just now, Ashish0490 said:

What are the parameters to get $0.65 at IB? I am also being charged higher. Any useful links/information will be appreciated. 

For VIX spreads:

IB commission = $0.65/contract
CBOE exchange fee (Complex VIX, Premium > $2.00) = $0.45/contract

The above fees work out to roughly $0.05/contract

0.65+0.45+0.05 = $1.15/contract or $2.30/spread

[Peeyotch 223]

This is the full VIX exchange fee schedule. You get a break for trading cheaper contracts, which does sometimes come into play. It's also worth noting that some other brokers just charge you $0.45 (or more) per contract, remit the correct amount to CBOE, and pocket the rest.

 

CV Customer, Premium $0.00-$0.10, VIX, Simple 0.10 CW Customer, Premium $0.11-$0.99, VIX, Simple 0.25 CX Customer, Premium $1.00-$1.99, VIX, Simple 0.40 CY Customer, Premium >=$2.00, VIX, Simple 0.45 CZ Customer, Premium $0.00-$0.10, VIX, Complex 0.05 DA Customer, Premium $0.11-$0.99, VIX, Complex 0.17 DB Customer, Premium $1.00-$1.99, VIX, Complex 0.30 DC Customer, Premium >=$2.00, VIX, Complex 0.45

 

[J10 31]

5 minutes ago, falkor said:

I can assure you I do not trade anything close to 10,000 contracts per month. Also worth noting, there is a 9% VAT/GST in my jurisdiction, which is why the amount comes to something like $1.09 or $2.18. Likely the underlying cost is $1.00 per contract.

Interesting. If we factor in a 9% VAT, then those numbers make sense on the $0.50/contract tier.

 

(0.50+0.45+0.05)*1.09 = 1.09 per contract

ans*2 = 2.18 per spread

So, if that's the case, then the question is... Why are they charging you the lower tier if your total account monthly contract volume doesn't exceed 10,000 contracts? Strange!

 

[falkor 164]

Oh actually. Yes I did exceed 10k contracts for the first time this month. So that explains the pricing then.

[Bullfighter 292]

Doesn't IB do rebates when you add liquidity? That may be a factor too

[falkor 164]

I have never in my tender history of trading vix options ever received a rebate, even for non-marketable orders. Has anyone?

[Peeyotch 223]

I haven’t. The only rebate I’ve ever seen on any index options is on small quantities of XSP. No need to offer rebates when the product is only traded at one exchange. 

[J10 31]

19 minutes ago, falkor said:

I have never in my tender history of trading vix options ever received a rebate, even for non-marketable orders. Has anyone?

Nope, I haven't. There do not appear to be any CBOE exchange rebates for VIX, just fees.

 

https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/accounts/fees/CBOEoptfee.php

 

Interestingly enough, I've also had the occasional $0.20 surcharge added to single-leg VIX options, even on non-marketable orders.

 

Presumably the following:

 

Surcharge - VIX (maker non-turner), premium > 0.10

USD 0.20

 

Edited Saturday at 03:31 PM by J10

[FlingThorn 27]

I've received rebates at IB, but only when entering ratio diagonals on individual stocks, not VIX options to my knowledge.

[greenspan76 302]

4 hours ago, falkor said:

I have never in my tender history of trading vix options ever received a rebate, even for non-marketable orders. Has anyone?

For all trading at IB, I average 1-2 trades per week with a negative commissions and an unknown number of reduced commission trades. Since my commission on VIX trades has varied between $0.94/contract on some trades to $1.15/contract on other trades, I just assumed there were rebates, but now that I'm thinking about it, that's just an assumption