krisbee 1,964 Report post Posted October 18 I think they restored the system with last nights back database snapshots, and would be applying the trades that happened today again. That could be the reason I see last nights expired options actively showing now, whatever I closed this morning is opened again.... only 1 more hour for mkt close. Let's see what they can do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CJ912 136 Report post Posted October 18 I guess it's time for a beer then.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alwaysprepared 32 Report post Posted October 18 2 minutes ago, luxmon said: Has any other brokerage had a similar event happen?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
luxmon 233 Report post Posted October 18 The sad part is I can't even make offsetting positions in another account to neutralize the Tradier position that may or may not be resolved today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CJ912 136 Report post Posted October 18 Just got an e-mail: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allinadayswork 21 Report post Posted October 18 ain't no "discount" worth this. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skylimit 27 Report post Posted October 18 I'm glad I don't have any positions expiring today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
luxmon 233 Report post Posted October 18 A bit more color from Chris but it sure would be nice to know what's in my portfolio into the weekend. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrustyJules 3,210 Report post Posted October 18 Its going 2 be pretty disastrous for them. Just on my positions the cost could be 10000+ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skylimit 27 Report post Posted October 18 3 minutes ago, TrustyJules said: Its going 2 be pretty disastrous for them. Just on my positions the cost could be 10000+ Unlikely they'll bear the cost. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ex3y7s 149 Report post Posted October 18 (edited) IANAL, but the disclaimer on their website isn't super encouraging. Systems response and account access times may vary due to a variety of factors, including trading volumes, market conditions and system performance. Past performance is no guarantee of future returns. Use of these systems is at your own risk. Please visit Tradier Disclosures/Policies for a full list of policies and disclosures. Edited October 18 by ex3y7s Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrustyJules 3,210 Report post Posted October 18 1 minute ago, Skylimit said: Unlikely they'll bear the cost. Why? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
luxmon 233 Report post Posted October 18 Mine could be pretty disastrous if their "best efforts" didn't get around to closing the shorts of the expiring SPY iron flies that were open. Luckily it's a small account and an IRA so even if it blows I don't think they could come after me for a debit balance, but who knows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kyle139 15 Report post Posted October 18 2 minutes ago, ex3y7s said: IANAL, but the disclaimer on their website isn't super encouraging. Systems response and account access times may vary due to a variety of factors, including trading volumes, market conditions and system performance. Past performance is no guarantee of future returns. Use of these systems is at your own risk. Please visit Tradier Disclosures/Policies for a full list of policies and disclosures. I don't think any disclaimer is going to get you off the hook for not allowing trading at all for 5+ hours during a trading day. They're going to have to make it right or will probably get sued out of existence by anyone with serious money on the line. They may have lucked out in that it was a pretty stable day in the market and we didn't blast 1 or 2% in either direction. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PBJ 7 Report post Posted October 18 Zero incentive to stay with them - this week was disastrous - cannot place / change / close orders during fast moving market conditions and a full day outage today is their nemesis - moving to the new RH Legend Platform 🙂 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ex3y7s 149 Report post Posted October 18 (edited) 10 minutes ago, TrustyJules said: Why? Depending on their client's positions that are assigned, what happens to them over the weekend, and their operating cash, this could easily bankrupt them. I wonder if brokerages have insurance underwriters for such issues. 8 minutes ago, Kyle139 said: I don't think any disclaimer is going to get you off the hook for not allowing trading at all for 5+ hours during a trading day. They're going to have to make it right or will probably get sued out of existence by anyone with serious money on the line. They may have lucked out in that it was a pretty stable day in the market and we didn't blast 1 or 2% in either direction. Yes you absolutely can sue them, but if they go under you are just one of tens of thousands of creditors. Not trying to create a panic as I obviously have no idea what Tradier's operating structure looks like but similar things absolutely have happened to brokerages causing them to go bankrupt and account holders became bag holders. Just another reason to keep your accounts small, distributed, and the largest ones with the most reputable firms. I would guess total catastrophe is unlikely, but I wouldn't expect any benevolence or generosity when it comes to settling assigned/expired positions. Edited October 18 by ex3y7s 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t'pee 541 Report post Posted October 18 A temp outage is one thing, this is way beyond that. I'm moving my funds somewhere else as soon as poss. This isn't the first time but it's by far the worst, my conclusion is their systems are not robust, and their communication not proactive, never seen any think like this with IB or TW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CJ912 136 Report post Posted October 19 Just had a quick win my account and it all looks normal again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falkor 254 Report post Posted October 19 Hi guys, Been watching this thread for a while and would like to make a few clarifying points. 12 hours ago, alwaysprepared said: Has any other brokerage had a similar event happen?? Yes it has happened now and then. The most famous incident is Robinhood in 2020. @Skylimit and @ex3y7s are correct in that the terms of service are usually very carefully drafted such that any exemption clause would render it very unlikely that any affected user would have recourse under contract or tort (except for very few exceptions, such as if you can prove fraud, or death or physical injury was caused - which doesn't seem to be applicable here). By all means consult your lawyer, but imho it is unlikely you'll be successful in suing them directly. However, having said that, because Tradier is a member of FINRA/SIPC they are subject to regulation, and FINRA will indeed impose penalties for serious outages (as they did for Robinhood in 2021). Be prepared that the wheels of justice turn slowly, and any such restitution is likely to take years to come into your hands. If you are an affected user and you wish to take things forward with this, please file a tip with FINRA. If you act fast and can provide lots of detail, you may also (at their discretion) be eligible for whistleblower incentives, which may include a percentage of any penalty imposed. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrustyJules 3,210 Report post Posted October 19 1 hour ago, falkor said: Hi guys, Been watching this thread for a while and would like to make a few clarifying points. Yes it has happened now and then. The most famous incident is Robinhood in 2020. @Skylimit and @ex3y7s are correct in that the terms of service are usually very carefully drafted such that any exemption clause would render it very unlikely that any affected user would have recourse under contract or tort (except for very few exceptions, such as if you can prove fraud, or death or physical injury was caused - which doesn't seem to be applicable here). By all means consult your lawyer, but imho it is unlikely you'll be successful in suing them directly. However, having said that, because Tradier is a member of FINRA/SIPC they are subject to regulation, and FINRA will indeed impose penalties for serious outages (as they did for Robinhood in 2021). Be prepared that the wheels of justice turn slowly, and any such restitution is likely to take years to come into your hands. If you are an affected user and you wish to take things forward with this, please file a tip with FINRA. If you act fast and can provide lots of detail, you may also (at their discretion) be eligible for whistleblower incentives, which may include a percentage of any penalty imposed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krisbee 1,964 Report post Posted October 19 11 hours ago, CJ912 said: Just had a quick win my account and it all looks normal again. It is not normal yet. Check your "Cost Basis" for all the positions, is it good? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bull3t007 143 Report post Posted October 19 1 hour ago, krisbee said: It is not normal yet. Check your "Cost Basis" for all the positions, is it good? Same here. Also my overall P&L still wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ex3y7s 149 Report post Posted October 19 Every position has the same acquired date too if you look at the API which means they probably backfilled this from another data source that lacked both cost basis and acquisition date. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
luxmon 233 Report post Posted October 19 I checked the trade confirmations from yesterday and everything seems complete - including the shares I was assigned from ITM expiring options they failed to close out with their "best-efforts". My little IRA is at 10x leverage now. This should be interesting to iron out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ex3y7s 149 Report post Posted October 19 The irony if Tradier has to use their own order backend to liquidate clients' assigned positions and all the market orders get stuck in "Pending". 🤔😅 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ex3y7s 149 Report post Posted October 20 Looks like they have backfilled the cost basis on current positions (but not the acquired date). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryJet7 27 Report post Posted October 21 Positions and cost basis are back, but I'm unable to modify any current open orders. Anyone else having this issue today? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bull3t007 143 Report post Posted October 21 15 minutes ago, JerryJet7 said: Positions and cost basis are back, but I'm unable to modify any current open orders. Anyone else having this issue today? Works fine for me. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
myang 24 Report post Posted October 21 1 minute ago, Bull3t007 said: Works fine for me. same here Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bull3t007 143 Report post Posted October 21 @TrustyJules how did it turn out for you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrustyJules 3,210 Report post Posted October 21 Just got back in - late meetings all day here in Europe - it seems normal and I could modify an existing open GTC 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrustyJules 3,210 Report post Posted October 21 Some things still not right: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
myang 24 Report post Posted October 24 Can someone share how Tradier would handle the outage? I am not impacted by the outage, but I consider it to be a huge risk. If Tradier does not handle it properly, I would move my account somewhere else. Thank you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krisbee 1,964 Report post Posted October 24 28 minutes ago, myang said: Can someone share how Tradier would handle the outage? I am not impacted by the outage, but I consider it to be a huge risk. If Tradier does not handle it properly, I would move my account somewhere else. Thank you I would suggest you to email them directly service@tradierbrokerage.com 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ex3y7s 149 Report post Posted October 24 31 minutes ago, myang said: Can someone share how Tradier would handle the outage? I am not impacted by the outage, but I consider it to be a huge risk. If Tradier does not handle it properly, I would move my account somewhere else. Thank you They've been totally radio silent AFAICT on postmortem, causes, tech remediations, etc.. I'm definitely going to be downsizing my account with them (but will continue to use them for small but commission intensive trades). 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allinadayswork 21 Report post Posted October 24 does anyone use their api, and if so, what is your experience with them re api? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ex3y7s 149 Report post Posted October 24 (edited) 37 minutes ago, allinadayswork said: does anyone use their api, and if so, what is your experience with them re api? Yes, I've used it extensively. It works pretty well, although it has quirks around the JSON format (probably because they're using XML and some library that does a weird job converting it), so it will do things like return the literal string `"null"` and if you have one open order, return `"orders": {}` but if you have multiple that becomes an array, so just little inconsistencies like that. The documentation is adequate, not great. It is much less cumbersome and finicky than the IBKR TWS API. Edited October 24 by ex3y7s 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krisbee 1,964 Report post Posted October 24 I still see Cost basis issues. Not sure if anyone still have, you may need to see if the transactions happened on 10/17th cost basis are okay. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allinadayswork 21 Report post Posted October 24 @ex3y7s do you use api only for account admin or streaming live data? what about robo trading? do you feel comfortable having account there? @krisbee was about to open an account to test drive when the last debacle occurred. got the jitters about parking ant funds there, any thoughts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ex3y7s 149 Report post Posted October 24 1 minute ago, allinadayswork said: @ex3y7s do you use api only for account admin or streaming live data? what about robo trading? do you feel comfortable having account there? @krisbee was about to open an account to test drive when the last debacle occurred. got the jitters about parking ant funds there, any thoughts? I use the API to place orders, and to track fills and executions. I would not use it for market data (it's too slow). I haven't investigated their streaming APIs; I've only used the poll-based ones. If you have a strategy that relies on fast market data, I would recommend paying for a real data connection. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krisbee 1,964 Report post Posted October 24 21 minutes ago, allinadayswork said: @ex3y7s do you use api only for account admin or streaming live data? what about robo trading? do you feel comfortable having account there? @krisbee was about to open an account to test drive when the last debacle occurred. got the jitters about parking ant funds there, any thoughts? I would wait to see if things are stable, and official explanation given by them for recent downtime before trying it out. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krisbee 1,964 Report post Posted October 25 Changing limit order price (Tradier) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryJet7 27 Report post Posted October 25 same - I had to cancel and create new order to get it to go through Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krisbee 1,964 Report post Posted October 25 Just now, JerryJet7 said: same - I had to cancel and create new order to get it to go through Everytime I encounter error, I email Tradier customer service. I'd suggest you to do so. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
luxmon 233 Report post Posted October 25 I only hold USFR in the account now and tried to sell some. Also seeing issues with basic equity orders cancel/modify. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
myang 24 Report post Posted October 30 My Tradier Pro does not seem working properly all the tabs like trading, portfolio, etc are gone ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
